Short Logs

[Stereo]

Most of us strive to produce a good log every morning, with varying degrees of success.

 

Windfall, the problem with those £30 jobbies is that they often won't take much more than 4x2 size logs if they don't slide. We had one and it wouldn't even take 6x2. I had a load of stud walls to build so I got the biggest GMC (we sell them) chop saw I could get and it's superb for firewood which only occured to me as I was chopping up leftover 4x2 for the stove. Even goes through pallet ends as well. To be honest, I'm not sure how long it's going to last putting through tons of firewood but it's still working well and feeling tight after at least 15 hilux loads of billets. You really want a 305mm with a slider on it, not a fixed 210mm saw.

[Alycidon]

Alycidon, I think your view of burning wood is a little bit narrow minded to actually have any success in using it as a primary fuel.

 

Firstly, kilning is expensive (I run a sawn timber drying kiln). There is a lot of handling, a lot of energy input and a lot of expense in setting up.

 

Secondly, kiln dried firewood is mostly pointless, because as soon as it leaves the kiln, it will begin to take on moisture from the air. Here in South East Scotland, the equilibrium moisture content of timber is 14-22% (depending on month of year, according to relative humidity). Timber stored outside in winter will attain a moisture content of 20%, or more. If you are wanting to burn the kind of quantity that actually produces a reasonable amount of heat, you aren't going to be able to store it in a warm room.

 

Thirdly, I disagree with the idea that 25% MC logs produce a bad fire. I put 15 cubic meters of good, dry, 20-30% MC hardwood through my stove over winter. I had it cleaned last week and the chimney sweep was very complimentary about the state of the flue. I have a flue thermometer too, and maintaining the fire within the healthy zone is very straightforward.

 

I am not wishing to have a go, but I do think that this kind of misinformation regarding firewood is quite destructive to the numerous firewood producers (I'm not one, I should point out) who strive to produce a good log at a fair price. If customers were more willing to store and season their own wood, rather than wanting it 20 minutes after calling you, we would all be in a better situation too.

 

Jonathan

 

No offence taken at all. I agree that kilning is expensive backbreaking work, I have been watching your kilning thread elsewhere, beautiful results, you must be well pleased, I would be.

 

Morso advise max wood moisture content 18%, Esse 20%. The others are in the same area. The Certainly Wood web site will advise that less moisture = more heat from a given amount of fuel, mind you they do have a commercial reason for stating this.

 

I have this winter tried to burn Ash at 25% in my showroom stove after it got some snow on it, admitted this went on soon after lighting and it just sat in the stove, burnt very slowly with minimal heat output. Soot and tar in the flue is increased as the creosote in the wood given off during burning is not ignited at these low temps, it then condenses in the flue/chimney and coats it with tar/creosote.

 

The wood I sold this winter was at 3% and 9% ( soft and hard) when measured late last summer, when it went out is was around 18%. As you say it had picked up moisture ( kept in an open barn) but as its dry inside it soon looses it kept inside. Chuck a 14%- 18% log into a hot working stove with a potential buyer watching it almost instantly bursts into flame, that usually seals their desire to own a stove, usually taking a gas appliance out in the process which creates more market for everyone here.

 

Agreed that if customers bought moisture meters and are prepared to store for some time before burning then the problem would be resolved. But how many retail customers are buying wood now for next winter?, not many.

 

I am simply trying to advise the members what moisture content a stove owner should have for optimum results, most of them will though have little idea unless it has been drilled into then by the stove seller. I am certainly not having a go at the industry as a whole. Customers will remember where they bought wood that would not burn and move on to someone else.

 

Thanks

 

A

Edited April 26, 2011 by Alycidon

[Stereo]

Very valid points but many firewood users will not have the space to store a years worth of wood to season. It's a difficult one isn't it? I'm currently burning some ash and elm which was dead standing for at least 4 years and it's bone dry. We stock up the Esse in the evenings which takes the chill off the house and boosts the heat store for tomorrow's hot water. It must be 10% or less and it's a joy to burn. I open the door and get a blast of heat. The stove is in it's element and working brilliantly.

 

Compare this to when we get short and are putting in 25% stuff with pallet planks to keep the heat up and it's night and day. My ambition of course is for it to be the former situation all the time but with a business to run and 3 boys under 6 I struggle, even with 2 acres of garden and 60 acres of land including a 20 acre wood at my disposal.

 

What hope has your average 2 up, 2 down semi dweller? I can't imagine how I could have stored and burnt wood when I lived in a modern semi in the village.

[gensetsteve]

No offence taken at all. I agree that kilning is expensive backbreaking work, I have been watching your kilning thread elsewhere, beautiful results, you must be well pleased, I would be.

 

Morso advise max wood moisture content 18%, Esse 20%. The others are in the same area. The Certainly Wood web site will advise that less moisture = more heat from a given amount of fuel, mind you they do have a commercial reason for stating this.

 

I have this winter tried to burn Ash at 25% in my showroom stove after it got some snow on it, admitted this went on soon after lighting and it just sat in the stove, burnt very slowly with minimal heat output. Soot and tar in the flue is increased as the creosote in the wood given off during burning is not ignited at these low temps, it then condenses in the flue/chimney and coats it with tar/creosote.

 

The wood I sold this winter was at 3% and 9% ( soft and hard) when measured late last summer, when it went out is was around 18%. As you say it had picked up moisture ( kept in an open barn) but as its dry inside it soon looses it kept inside. Chuck a 14%- 18% log into a hot working stove with a potential buyer watching it almost instantly bursts into flame, that usually seals their desire to own a stove, usually taking a gas appliance out in the process which creates more market for everyone here.

 

Agreed that if customers bought moisture meters and are prepared to store for some time before burning then the problem would be resolved. But how many retail customers are buying wood now for next winter?, not many.

 

I am simply trying to advise the members what moisture content a stove owner should have for optimum results, most of them will though have little idea unless it has been drilled into then by the stove seller. I am certainly not having a go at the industry as a whole. Customers will remember where they bought wood that would not burn and move on to someone else.

 

Thanks

 

A

 

You are right its great to see a stove installing actually experiencing the firewood production end. Most sell and install, firewood is someone elses problem. I had a good customer who struggled to burn ash we supplied when i went round and metered it showed 15%. Put an axe into it and it was 30% in the middle. If I lay a green beech log in the sun for 3 days I can get a reading of 17% but cut in half goes of the meter.

I would love to store for a year but if I spend 15k on logs I will get 20k back but cant afford to sit on it for a year.

[Big J]

Thanks for the very considered and informative reply Alycidon.

 

I the main problem up here is just the humidity. If you compare Edinburgh's climate to London's for example, we have a relative humidity of at least 20% higher. Kiln dried wood just sucks up the moisture again until it settles at around 18-20. Even in furniture maker's workshops, that are partially heated, equilibrium point is around 15%.

 

I am lucky in my storage capacity here. I've got about 35 tonnes stacked for the fire at home, and it's all getting at least 18 months split and seasoned before it goes on the stove.

 

Jonathan

[Alycidon]

Humidity was not something I had really considered being different in different areas but thinking about it then its a very valid point.

 

18%-20% will burn Ok, softwood at that will go well and you wont get any customer complaints but for optimum performance it needs to be drier.

 

A