V.T.A symptoms "the chatty trees"

[John Shutler]

begining of cupboard door flapping from a compression fork

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

I very much know the feeling!

 

Trying to call every oak with a little burr or buckle with fistulina, I force myself to look for the other features too before saying what I think. Although I can still spot them at a distance!

 

I need to be very much obsessed with it until April!

 

here you go rob, tell me about the butt of this pinus sylvestris. something different for a change:lol:

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

begining of cupboard door flapping from a compression fork

 

dont matter how many feet you use john you wont close it!

[John Shutler]

dont matter how many feet you use john you wont close it!

 

the 660 will tomorrow

[RobRainford]

here you go rob, tell me about the butt of this pinus sylvestris. something different for a change:lol:

 

Oh you tinker!

 

My initial thoughts are the bulging is a reaction the internal decay and this is what's also causing the buckling too. The pathogen present causing that I would think to be Phaeolus schweinitzii? (sp?)

[Treecreeper1961]

Can I have a guess?

 

There seems to be quite a lot going on there.

The corrective phototropic growth seems to suggest the tree slumped forward quite a lot with the tree responding really quickly.

It has obviously managed to correct it and must have sensed the increased flexing in the stem. That leads me to think it must be a white rot that created the extra flexing, if a brown rot caused such a lean it would surely have led to fracture. I would have a guess at Heterobasidion anossum as the fungi sp. but I don't know if that fits as it is supposedly a root rot. I reckon there is a wound on the left side of the butt that could be the point of entry, maybe mower damage?

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

Oh you tinker!

 

My initial thoughts are the bulging is a reaction the internal decay and this is what's also causing the buckling too. The pathogen present causing that I would think to be Phaeolus schweinitzii? (sp?)

 

Can I have a guess?

 

There seems to be quite a lot going on there.

The corrective phototropic growth seems to suggest the tree slumped forward quite a lot with the tree responding really quickly.

It has obviously managed to correct it and must have sensed the increased flexing in the stem. That leads me to think it must be a white rot that created the extra flexing, if a brown rot caused such a lean it would surely have led to fracture. I would have a guess at Heterobasidion anossum as the fungi sp. but I don't know if that fits as it is supposedly a root rot. I reckon there is a wound on the left side of the butt that could be the point of entry, maybe mower damage?

 

I like your thinking guys, your both thinking along good lines.

 

I will point out at this stage the decay organism is unkown, but I do know one that is prevalent on this particular site and suspect it is the culprit here, that it be one of the coniferous brown rotters.

 

Being one of the most if not the most light demanding species the form is purely due to searching for the light, a large beech besides it and other very mature trees. The pines form is exaggerating the stresses though.

[Treecreeper1961]

I like your thinking guys, your both thinking along good lines.

 

I will point out at this stage the decay organism is unkown, but I do know one that is prevalent on this particular site and suspect it is the culprit here, that it be one of the coniferous brown rotters.

 

Being one of the most if not the most light demanding species the form is purely due to searching for the light, a large beech besides it and other very mature trees. The pines form is exaggerating the stresses though.

 

If there is no bracket present then that probably rules out H. anossum.

Is the fungi you speak of Sparissis crispa?

The additional increment of reaction wood goes against what I have learnt regarding brown rot.

I'm sure you have read it all before, but degradation of cellulose supposedly leads to brittle fracture with the stem retaining rigidity and hence the cambium unaware of the impending mechanical doom. Alternatively, the lack of rigidity but retained ductile strength created by white rot leads to increased flexing of the stem and the cambium senses it and responds, by reinforcing the zone, returning the state of uniform stress if possible.

Now, I know this is recognised wisdom, but what I am starting to suspect is that it is not necessarily set in stone.

Can trees sense and respond to the loss of equilibrium caused by brown rot?

The Fistulina thread suggests so.

[Treecreeper1961]

Is there a hint of helical growth in the stem? Increment strips reinforcing early helical crack complicated by decay?

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

If there is no bracket present then that probably rules out H. anossum.

Is the fungi you speak of Sparissis crispa?

The additional increment of reaction wood goes against what I have learnt regarding brown rot.

I'm sure you have read it all before, but degradation of cellulose supposedly leads to brittle fracture with the stem retaining rigidity and hence the cambium unaware of the impending mechanical doom. Alternatively, the lack of rigidity but retained ductile strength created by white rot leads to increased flexing of the stem and the cambium senses it and responds, by reinforcing the zone, returning the state of uniform stress if possible.

Now, I know this is recognised wisdom, but what I am starting to suspect is that it is not necessarily set in stone.

Can trees sense and respond to the loss of equilibrium caused by brown rot?

The Fistulina thread suggests so.

 

 

Brown rot is widely said to be non symptom forming, this is of course not true, not even slightly! Sparasiss crispa is the suspect here, based more on location or nieghbourhood colonisations than deformation or cavity form.

 

The thing is that even a brown rot can cause symptoms because brown rot is basically causing a cavity of a given shape and dimension so the weight of the crown and its form which remains unchanged (if not dying back) is being pressed down on a smaller volume of fibers or cross sectional area, so symptoms are generated because fibres respond to stress, doesnt matter what causes the stress, stress is stress.

 

If we look at the deformations we can see the hieght and dimension of the brown rot too.