Broken chestnut stem.

[RC0]

Reg,

 

from my experience to use cranes effectively and efficiently you have to be working with a very good crane operator frequently.

 

my last crane removal was 9 years ago with a company that used them for any big tree removal where access and large work areas would allow. It was excellent to see the tree coming down in big pieces and being planted right behind the chipper or right next to the road for the log truck.

 

However, I work for myself these days and the idea of bringing in a crane with an operator unfamiliar to treework does not fill me with confidence which is why I've avoided using a crane for the last 9 years opting instead for staightforward rigging.....which I know is slow, but better the devil you know and all that.

 

The only way I could get seriously back into doing crane work again was if I started on small trees and worked my way back up to bigger trees, but this all depends of being able to use the same crane operator and company each time....which, although not impossible...is difficult to find - as some crane operators get placed on big construction projects for months on end, so you'd get one operator out for two or three removals then never see him again, so having to start from scratch with a new operator every time is gonna be difficult.

 

Your crane removals in the Manchester area? how many different crane operators and companies have you dealt with over the years?

 

Now you’re asking me something Tim, over the years, companies....maybe 20 or so different ones. Granted the last 10years in Manchester have mainly been the same crowd of 4 different operators/sized cranes....but I would sooner work with 100 different unknown crane-operators than 100 different unknown groundies - manually rigging down big wood.

 

You have to realise that these guys are rigging and lifting horrendous weights around and above workers on construction sites etc, on a daily basis....so treework is not such a big thing. When a mistake happens, 99-100 its down to a climbers bad communication, pre-loading, slinging, hook/boom-placement or cutting....the crane guy just follows pre-instructions and reacts the best he can if he sees something going wrong, or about to.

 

I'm not suggesting a novice rigger just go ahead and chance his arm at crane work....but experienced guys should consider making more of the option while its still available in the UK.

[Tom D]

Now youre asking me something Tim, over the years, companies....maybe 20 or so different ones. Granted the last 10years in Manchester have mainly been the same crowd of 4 different operators/sized cranes....but I would sooner work with 100 different unknown crane-operators than 100 different unknown groundies - manually rigging down big wood.

 

You have to realise that these guys are rigging and lifting horrendous weights around and above workers on construction sites etc, on a daily basis....so treework is not such a big thing. When a mistake happens, 99-100 its down to a climbers bad communication, pre-loading, slinging, hook/boom-placement or cutting....the crane guy just follows pre-instructions and reacts the best he can if he sees something going wrong, or about to.

 

I'm not suggesting a novice rigger just go ahead and chance his arm at crane work....but experienced guys should consider making more of the option while its still available in the UK.

 

 

Re the last bit Reg, are we likely to see crane dismantling stopped somehow?

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[Rupe]

Tight farmers and short notice, fair enough....but personally speaking a 10 ton crane would have still been the first option to come to mind. On a job like that its the difference between spending a full day or taking two hours with a lot less effort and risk, with the latter option giving you the rest of the day to do something else....with or without the crane!

 

There is a popular misconception that cranes are only cost effective on large trees, not true at all. You can knock off several smaller jobs in a day while cutting down on so much of the manual labour.

 

 

 

How much does a 10T crane costs and how much do you think I got for this job and much could i have saved if I used a crane instead? Give me some figures?

[Rupe]

Seperate question Reg, How many cranes have you paid for yourself compared to how many you have been contracted in to work with?

[RC0]

Re the last bit Reg, are we likely to see crane dismantling stopped somehow?

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Call it an educated hunch Tom. Right now we are still in a dark corner, but I don’t think it’ll be long before individuals, or groups of them start shining torches in here to see if there’s money to made in the name of and H&S.

[RC0]

How much does a 10T crane costs and how much do you think I got for this job and much could i have saved if I used a crane instead? Give me some figures?

 

Rupe, that chestnut looks less than $500, although how much less is hard to tell without seeing it, the site and negotiating with the owners in person. I can get a 10T city crane here for £350 per day. Gross weight of 12T from memory, 6ft wide and will boom out to just over 80ft.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ywZIT5O3A4]YouTube - 10 ton City crane, tree removal[/ame]

 

The chestnut looks like a 2 hour job, assuming the wood was staying put and being cut up etc. What you do for the rest of the day depends on what you have on the books that will suitably fit in, with or without the crane. I obviously can’t speak for you or any potential profits savings in that respect.

[RC0]

Seperate question Reg, How many cranes have you paid for yourself compared to how many you have been contracted in to work with?

 

 

Not sure whether you realise this or not but 99.9% of the time I’m the hired help on jobs, same as the crane company. We are both on a day rate, not profit share….so I don’t pay his wages, same as he doesn’t pay mine. More often than not though, we both take time out to look at jobs for free, where the tree company is unsure. FWIW, I have been guarantor on behalf of several tree companies to reassure that the Crane co is going to get paid.

 

That was and odd question Rupe, why did you ask it? I have used bold not to be assertive, confrontational or anything like that, but just in case you otherwise overlook the question again. Thanks

[Mark Bolam]

I think/hope what Rupe is getting at is that on most jobs, the £350 that goes to the crane co. would be better off in your own pocket, even if it meant an extra day climbing and rigging.

 

The HSE/crane thing Reg, surely they can see it's safer than rigging, especially on a structurally compromised tree?

[testcricket01]

I think/hope what Rupe is getting at is that on most jobs, the £350 that goes to the crane co. would be better off in your own pocket, even if it meant an extra day climbing and rigging.

 

 

but if you get a crane in, do the job quicker get onto another job you have still got the 350quid in you pocket because you did 2 jobs instead of 1 or if you finish a day early on a several day job your still earning alot more than not useing one, simple facts. do more jobs = more money + crane = easy work no manual lifting big lumps etc

[Rupe]

Reg your spot on, we got £450 for that job, but only because I thought it would be smaller and said "Minumum £450" if we come out tomorrow. Once I had mentioned £450 I was never likely to get any more out of the tight farmer than that! Anyway if I had priced it beforehand I might have priced it at £500 maybe even £550 but I doubt it.

 

So for £450.00 I turn up with a groundie that cost me £60 so I made one journey to and from a site and made initial profit of £390 happy days.

 

£350 for a crane? Plus vat? I'm not vat registered so thats £420 I would have to pay. Thats more than my profit for a day!! So I'm down on the first job but if I want to I can go and empty the truck and find something else to do to make up the difference, I don't think so somehow. You right it does depend on what other jobs are available to do, but this is rural gloucestershire so my work is spread around a bit.

 

 

I can see that a crane making a two day job into one is good, as long as you have five days work that week, if not then you have just lost a days profit to another company.

 

MArk is right, why would I want to give a days profit to another company, when it can stay in my pocket?

 

Which is why I asked you that bold question. I assume then you have never paid for a crane? I dont think you would want to. Its none of my business what you charge for the climbing work, but I'm sure it less than that crane price?? (and thats just a small crane) so if you could go home with half the money for the crane on top of your normal day rate you would be happy I am sure? And if it meant you had to come back tomorrow a that same rate again you would be happy.

 

Cranes have their place, mostly when there is no drop zone, which is why I'm surprised you are suggesting it on this thread? Easy job this one, not dangerous or labour intensive, just bosh it down, chip it up. Simples