Fungi- Ally or enemy?

[Amelanchier]

Convince me regarding what? The need for 'inclusionality' when explaining the intricacies of ecological systems? No dice I'm afraid.

 

There is a general rule of thumb that I would advise you to apply - colloquially known as Ockhams Razor. Broadly speaking: it is futile to do with more things that which can be done with fewer. If two theories explain the phenomena equally well - choose the simplest. The extra detail cannot usefully contribute to the explanation.

 

Quite simply, I don't find that 'inclusionality' explains anything that isn't already explained or that it adds anything to my understanding. It is therefore parsimoniously relegated to the bin.

 

Incidentally, I applied the same process (before I knew what it was) to Lovelock's Gaia hypothesis (note his use of the tentative) when reading it at school. The concept of holistic feedback within a closed system is useful and informative but not (to my mind) groundbreaking or revolutionary but the premise that the planet acts as an organism bettering its own environment doesn't add anything tangible to the mix. Bin.

 

I would note finally that Butin clearly does not feel the need to justify or support these quoted assertions by adding another layer of overarching theory to his work. He doesn't need to; after all, it is futile to do with more things that which can be done with fewer...

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

Convince me regarding what? The need for 'inclusionality' when explaining the intricacies of ecological systems? No dice I'm afraid.

 

There is a general rule of thumb that I would advise you to apply - colloquially known as Ockhams Razor. Broadly speaking: it is futile to do with more things that which can be done with fewer. If two theories explain the phenomena equally well - choose the simplest. The extra detail cannot usefully contribute to the explanation.

 

Quite simply, I don't find that 'inclusionality' explains anything that isn't already explained or that it adds anything to my understanding. It is therefore parsimoniously relegated to the bin.

 

Incidentally, I applied the same process (before I knew what it was) to Lovelock's Gaia hypothesis (note his use of the tentative) when reading it at school. The concept of holistic feedback within a closed system is useful and informative but not (to my mind) groundbreaking or revolutionary but the premise that the planet acts as an organism bettering its own environment doesn't add anything tangible to the mix. Bin.

 

I would note finally that Butin clearly does not feel the need to justify or support these quoted assertions by adding another layer of overarching theory to his work. He doesn't need to; after all, it is futile to do with more things that which can be done with fewer...

 

I wonder if you actualy read the piece i just added?

 

did you understand the concept of dissolving the bounderies?

 

Did you get that, hat is being suggested is that human perceptions are fundementaly flawed currently and that it is the viewpoint of the singularity that is holding us back and giving us a warped sense of the universe?

 

That essentialy, your entropy is in fact not at odds with life, that life in fact embraces death, in fact needs it to flow creativley, and it is only man who seeks to control it or run from it, because darwinian logic says this is a race, a war with entropy.

[Amelanchier]

I read the summary and the conclusion (if it could be called a conclusion ) and skimmed the rest. Life is too short sometimes...

 

The idea that our knowledge is limited by our anatomy, environment and history is nothing new. Most full time degree courses (well BSc at least) begin with an analysis of epistemology and ontology. Essentially an examination of how we know what we know and the nature (and indeed limits) of our knowledge.

 

The work you have presented doesn't even begin dent that collosal and extensive foundation. Even the idea that everything flows from one form to another is enshrined in the law of the conservation of energy (which cannot be created nor destroyed) and even explicitly stated by Heraclitus two and a half thousand years ago. I think he has dibs.

 

Think a bit wider Tony. Be more... receptive.

[scotspine1]

I recently watched this vid showing Alan Rayner describing his theory -

 

Sorry Hama, but what a load of rubbish -

 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVa7FUIA3W8]YouTube - Alan Rayner on Inclusionality, Boundaries and Space[/ame]

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

fair enough.

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

Im am actualy starting to wonder if the butt rotting colonisation of armillaria does not actualy benifit the tree by its generation of a melanine/psuedosclerotial plate to the inside of internal cavities! see a new tree biology page 27, and give it some thought.

[RobArb]

too expensive for me at the moment:sad:

[Fungus]

1. Fungal interactions ... with trees ... currently pathogenic ..

2. The strictly symbiotic relationships are within the neutral part of the wave but may evolve towards negative or positive.

 

1. All terms used in this context, including positive, negative, neutral, benificial, saprobiotic, pathogenic and symbiotic, are examples of anthropomorphism, i.e. attribution of characteristics assumed to only belong to humans to non-human organisms.

2. Strictly symbiotic relationships do not exist, because they just are a temporary state of balance (equilibrium) in a co-parasitic relationship between two organisms and symbiosis is not benificial by nature, as it is considered to be pathological in relationships among nuclear family members in system therapy.

[scotspine1]

Im am actualy starting to wonder if the butt rotting colonisation of armillaria does not actualy benifit the tree by its generation of a melanine/psuedosclerotial plate to the inside of internal cavities! see a new tree biology page 27, and give it some thought.

 

you like page 27....

 

check out page 338, An intermission - one of my favourite pieces by Shigo

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

you like page 27....

 

check out page 338, An intermission - one of my favourite pieces by Shigo

 

its funny, ive had this book for a long time, skipping much about it, put off any depth of reading due to the nature of modern arboriculture, this book feels different, intermission P338 was a good little read, although no revelation to me, I am not driven by the same thought proscesses or view with the same eyes as many:001_smile:

 

I like to offer alternatives, we have been going round in ever decreasing circles!