Richard Dawkins- discuss

[Sam Thompson]

Jesus, and there was me thinking that this was a forum for lumberjacks

 

 

Im not that fussed how we got here, I like to think there is a "something" though A Great Spirit if you like. I think there might also be a Bearwalker. But It doesnt bug me much that I dont know. My Grandfarther used to tell me the story of how the Dragonfly learned to fly. He believed the story, and yet he belived in his God too.

 

 

Chin Chin,

 

Sam

[Sam Thompson]

I remind my kids on a regular basis how lucky they are that me and my wife broke the chain and saved them from it.

 

 

I think people should make up their own minds though. Doesnt that put you on the same level as the "God Squad" who brianwash their children?

 

 

 

Im not getting at you bud. Im just curious.

 

 

 

Sam

Edited July 26, 2010 by Sam Thompson
Spelling

[Saw-sick Steve]

Yawn ZZZZZZZ

Why the yawn? Seriously?

IF (and it's a very big IF) Darwin ''confessed'' on his death bed, he still left behind an enormous body of evidence to back up his theories.

It's akin to crackpots like Sarah Palin arguing that fossils are Gods way of testing us! WTF?!

I don't mind if people believe and get spiritual comfort from their particular brand of higher being, but leave the rest of us out of it.

Personally I'd rather leave that stuff in the Dark Ages and deal in beliefs that can be backed up by that little thing that Creationists find sooo annoying. What's it called? Oh yes, that's it - EVIDENCE!

Besides, living near Plymouth,how can you deny evolution - have you been to Swilly?

[Alinicoll]

As an ex-believer, I would try to enlighten people because, religion can and does ruin lives.

 

I grew up knowing a lovely girl who was great with kids and loved baby's, she is now a missionary and had has put off having kids till "the new system" (the paradise JW's believe is coming) It breaks my heart when I think of all the joy she has missed out on.

 

I know of a case where a well meaning atheist systematically dismantled somebody`s belief system. That person had a nervous breakdown. Pulling away someones psycological foundation can do alot of damage. Sometimes people need to realise the slow way. Obviously there are some extreme cults that do alot of damage and if you can help people out of that then that is all well and good. I would always question if enlighten means to bring clarity to someone or to convert to your opinion. There are also alot of people that get alot from their religion. I`m not religious by the way.

 

By the way its interesting to note that in former communist countries its the in thing for kids to be religious, in Eastern Europe and in China so its possible that the current western trend for atheism may change in a generation or two.

Edited July 26, 2010 by Alinicoll

[Alinicoll]

BUT, surely the creator must be even more complex and well designed, so where did he come from??

 

This is a serious question and I would love to get a better answer than the usual, "he's always been there"

 

I think anyone who has ever thought about existance must want to know that. Did some omnipotent being create it and is so who created the creator or did everything randomly appear from quite literally nothing... and does it really go on for ever. Either way its mind boggling and why are flowers beautiful, i just enjoy it

[LancsMike]

I know of a case where a well meaning atheist systematically dismantled somebody`s belief system. That person had a nervous breakdown. Pulling away someones psycological foundation can do alot of damage. Sometimes people need to realise the slow way. Obviously there are some extreme cults that do alot of damage and if you can help people out of that then that is all well and good. I would always question if enlighten means to bring clarity to someone or to convert to your opinion. There are also alot of people that get alot from their religion. I`m not religious by the way.

 

By the way its interesting to note that in former communist countries its the in thing for kids to be religious, in Eastern Europe and in China so its possible that the current western trend for atheism may change in a generation or two.

 

Good post Alinicoll

 

You're absolutely right about dismantling a belief structure, in ways such as Dawkins it's quite destructive in how he does it because he's not trying to educate, more trying to force his viewpoint and argue that Evolutionary theory is true which, for arguments sake it may not be - there are many theories out there regarding the creation of life which in my opinion should be explored to further our understanding as a species.

 

I dislike Creationism and Organised Religion primarily due to it putting Humans on a pedestal in that they view Humans as the only Animals to have Sentient properties, there has been a lot of studies out there even with Plants and Tree's where they have communicated, not in our terms of an actual language but through sound properties and waves - some people are even taking it further in terms of the ability to diagnose tree diseases and infections. But it also extends to other species of Animal on this planet - to view Humans as superior is quite bigoted really and illogical because Religion relies on Logic to justify itself but then forces people to rely on the irrational to cement the belief structure. The only way to combat or remedy this is through education, but not everyone can be convinced.

 

The other interesting one is the Hadron Collider in Switzerland/France - If the mechanics of this universe can be explained using this piece of scentific study I think we can further our understanding more as a species especially relating to Chaos Theory and how we came into exsistence - I just hope those who practice Religion can open their mind more to accept this rather than relying on the teachings of the Bible, Torah or Koran.

[Alinicoll]

 

Sure, and thats why i`m not a fan of Dawkins.

 

It`s worth remembering that Science, Maths and Religion all started from the same place anyway. Also that for thousands of years the civilizing process was pushed forward by fear of God/Gods not to metion alot of the food we eat etc so its not all bad by any means. Without a certain fear of retribution the law of "the only crime is getting caught" come in to play....

 

....but i digress

[skyhuck]

I think people should make up their own minds though. Doesnt that put you on the same level as the "God Squad" who brianwash their children?

 

 

 

Im not getting at you bud. Im just curious.

 

 

 

Sam

 

Not at all, because I do not "infect" my children with any belief structure they are free to look at things with a fairly unbiased eye and make up their minds

[skyhuck]

Sure, and thats why i`m not a fan of Dawkins.

 

It`s worth remembering that Science, Maths and Religion all started from the same place anyway. Also that for thousands of years the civilizing process was pushed forward by fear of God/Gods not to metion alot of the food we eat etc so its not all bad by any means. Without a certain fear of retribution the law of "the only crime is getting caught" come in to play....

 

....but i digress

 

This is the thing I find most depressing about religion.

 

I do the right thing because its the right thing not because of the fear of punishment.

 

And many religions allow for repentance, so you just do as you like and then repent and all is well.

[skyhuck]

I know of a case where a well meaning atheist systematically dismantled somebody`s belief system. That person had a nervous breakdown. Pulling away someones psycological foundation can do alot of damage. Sometimes people need to realise the slow way. Obviously there are some extreme cults that do alot of damage and if you can help people out of that then that is all well and good. I would always question if enlighten means to bring clarity to someone or to convert to your opinion. There are also alot of people that get alot from their religion. I`m not religious by the way.

 

.

 

Enlightenment is about fact, I try too base my opinions on fact, I am always keen to learn new facts and change my opinion accordingly.

 

When I left my religion, people used the same argument that you are using, but was it not Jesus who said "the truth will set you free".

 

For me truth is its own reward, I do not wish to believe a lie just because it makes me feel good.

 

I was a second generation believer who was truly "infected by my belief structure", if someone had knocked on my door and told me the fairy story I would have laughed at them, but when its your parents who inculcate it into you from birth you are taken in.

 

I think religion is a crutch that some need and some don't, I am quite happy to accept that this is it. Life is like a fair ground ride and when I have my turn I must get off and make room for someone else.