Splicing - Does it need to be certified?

[Rowan the Bruce]

No I'm not, just spoken to my inspector and he said that they need to be certified / CE marked, I'll call nod on the morrow.

[Samuel]

on the topic of splicing i need some ropes spliced and was wondering if anyone on here would do it for me and will pay a good price

[High Scale]

on the topic of splicing i need some ropes spliced and was wondering if anyone on here would do it for me and will pay a good price

 

 

Rigging? If so you could be helped, ppe? Sorry No.

[Samuel]

no sorry Hich scale it is my climbing strops that need splicing thanks anyway

[ArbjobsNick]

Sorry guys here goes my take on this I haven't said much to date but there appears to be a lot of confusion and miss information out there regarding hand splicing.

 

My understanding is this a splice correctly done will be a lot stronger than a knot. Let me be very clear I like them I think they are good, however.....

 

Knots are taught during training and are part of our climbing history if you lose the spliced eye off of your rope due to wear and tear you will need to either try splicing the tail end yourself or use a knot until its replaced. Its knot (excuse the pun) ideal but hey the other choice is buying a new line.

 

If you want to hand splice your personal climbing kit and feel capable of doing it to a high enough standard and have a LOLER inspector that will pass them it’s your risk.

 

A LOLER inspector has his own liability cover insuring him to inspect your equipment if he is happy that your splice is up to industry standards, or not it is his choice. By passing your hand splice he assumes the responsibility of justifying his decision in court should an accident occur.

 

If you hand splice a line for anyone else (paid or not) you are becoming a manufacturer, should that product now fail you will be responsible for the outcome. Do you carry manufacturers liability?

 

To hand splice a climbing line you have to deviate (change) the product from its original tested construction removing fibres to allow the splice to be constructed. It is now a different product. It may look the same it may feel the same but in the eyes of the LAW it isn't and therefore will not and should not carry the original CE mark. See my article on CE in the AA Newsletter.

 

LOLER and HSE all recommends you use CE marked and tested equipment for industrial use. Climbing at home or recreationally I understand you can pretty much do what you want.

 

Insurance? If you’re not using CE marked / tested equipment and have an accident will you be covered? Will the mate who spliced it for you pay for your care? I doubt it. If you have done it for someone else and they get injured do you want to end up in court ?

 

Several European hand splicer have had their splices CE tested and approved to date I understand no UK hand splicer has gone down this route although I understand at least one well known splicer is looking at this option very seriously, he has my full support.

 

Invention and development of new climbing products can be done under specific risk assessments and trailed using additional safety constraints. I don't think they have a place being trailed and tested in the in the everyday workplace? But this is just my opinion.

Edited July 30, 2010 by Amelanchier
Requested by member due to posting timeout

[Peter]

Good post.

 

Two things, firstly has a hand splice ever failed in use in arb? Certainly dont recall seeing any accident statistics on it. Certainly when I was at college, three strand splicing was on the curriculum for the purpose of making prussic loops.

 

Secondly, if the manufacturer's instructions are correctly followed to produce a splice, then that modification is approved by the manufacturer. The fact that the result splice is not itself CE marked is a technicality. Two identical splices, one made in the factory using a CE certified process, and one made by a competent but un-certified person, what is the difference?

 

Admittedly it is a technicality that could land the splicer in court, were the worst to happen, which brings me back to the first point, in all the years that hand splicing has gone on just in this country, in double braid, 16 strand, and in 3 strand, literally hundreds of thousands of splices, has anyone ever been injured? That is a serious question by the way, I genuinely want to know.

 

I am not endorsing the wholesale production and sale of hand splices by amatuers by any means, one should consider carefully before putting literally a life on the line, whether it be yours or someone elses.

[john dawson]

tis true, i did 3strand splicing at college too, with changes that in theory should mean any splicing taught is likely to be 16strand.

as long as its done proper by someone with a track record?

[Peter]

The regulations on PPE have changed since then John, although the principle is the same, the actual wording may lead one to believe that only the manufacturer of the rope can adequately perform an eye splice.

[ArbjobsNick]

Good post.

 

Two things, firstly has a hand splice ever failed in use in arb? Certainly dont recall seeing any accident statistics on it. Certainly when I was at college, three strand splicing was on the curriculum for the purpose of making prussic loops.

 

Secondly, if the manufacturer's instructions are correctly followed to produce a splice, then that modification is approved by the manufacturer. The fact that the result splice is not itself CE marked is a technicality. Two identical splices, one made in the factory using a CE certified process, and one made by a competent but un-certified person, what is the difference?

 

Admittedly it is a technicality that could land the splicer in court, were the worst to happen, which brings me back to the first point, in all the years that hand splicing has gone on just in this country, in double braid, 16 strand, and in 3 strand, literally hundreds of thousands of splices, has anyone ever been injured? That is a serious question by the way, I genuinely want to know.

 

I am not endorsing the wholesale production and sale of hand splices by amatuers by any means, one should consider carefully before putting literally a life on the line, whether it be yours or someone elses.

 

Hi Pete

Some good points there, I was taught to splice three strand too but I think anyone who has tried splicing 16 strand + will admit its a whole different ball game.

 

Has there been any hand splices that have failed to be honest I don't know just read another thread on here aout a lad cutting his hand was it notified was it recorded either again I dont know so just because they are not on record doesn't mean they havent happened and the more lads on here are recommended to have a go the more accidents I think we might see how many fatalities do we need before back room splicing by amaters is not recommended?

 

I know for a fact that Yale facotry splices are 80 - 90% hand done and finished using a machine that draws in the splice by a machine that excerts about 5 tonne of pressure can this be doen by hand? So is a hand splice or a factory prepared CE marked splice safer to climb on? Mmmmmm let me think about that one.

 

Why do the manufacturers have hand splicing instructions on their website well you can at this moment in time hand splice a rigging rope as it doesnt need a CE as its not part of PPE.

 

I am glad you don't approve of wholesale back room hand splicing but who is OK to do it and who isn't and how can a LOLER inspector or climber differentiate one form the other?

 

It's a bit like driving a car without an MOT sure loads of people do it and get away with it but is it safe?

 

Can of worms ? Oh yea.

[jarnii]

hi nick and pete.

 

nice threat one worth reading for sure. i have always had my splices done by one of two people who i have full trust in and fully trust their ability to make me a splice i have however brought a rope from yale and removed the whipping due to it being a sloopy job i was not happy with and re doing it under the supervision of one of my mates. this seriously leaves a doubt in my mind to the ability of a machine to have the same care and attention made as a person. i personally see it as the same as a anything done by people it will always be of higher quality than that of a machine. i do however see the potential for human error and do agree that a certification could be a good way of judging a persons competance of splicing but who knows what happens when they splice one day and are not feeling to good or any irregularity could make this splice not as good as others so i think it would be only to say the person has shown they know a process and a method but not judge every splice.

 

same as these cs units where people think i can now climb with a chainsaw well yer you can but you showed how to do some simple cuts not how to do it 30m up in the wind and the rain. this to me would be a different ball game.

 

swings and round abouts definately