Advice from you academics!

[WeeDee]

Hama, let me ask you one question.

 

WHO DO YOU THINK THIS COURSE IS DESIGNED FOR?

 

You make it sound as if it's made for people who already HAVE a degree!

 

But it isn't, of course. It's designed for applicants who have the ability to learn but don't have all the necessary skills and knowledge yet.

I think that you're experiencing (possibly for the first time in a long time) the apprehension of venturing into a new situation without knowing all of the facts.

In your everyday work you're probably on top of most situations - but this is 'beyond your control'.

 

My advice is to trust the educational route that has been planned to get from the start of this course to the end, and have faith in your own abilities to learn something new in a situation that is not available to everyone.

 

You'll end up one of the lucky ones - you just don't know that yet!

 

Good luck and keep us posted with your progress.

 

Dee

[arbclimber]

Hamadryad.

 

Thought long and hard before posting this but I think its the best advice I can give.

From your reaction to the skilled, semi-skilled debate I think you might me struggling cos you are trying to educate yourself for the wrong reasons. Seems to me that your main motivation is for more respect and so you can wander around with a clipboard so people know you are the most educated person on site. I do get that you have a genuine passion for what you do and I think once you realise why you actually want to do what you are doing, the easier it will become.

 

As i said I think this is the best advice I can give. Make of it what you will.

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

Hamad,

 

You will learn how to write reports. You will learn the computer skills. These are not pre-requisites of the course. You say you have spent 3k on books, whats stopping you buying a book on word processing, excel, report writing.

 

I am sorry mate but some of your posts do confuse me. You profess to be an intelligent, well read, thinking man who apparently can assess a tree in 30 seconds. Yet you are put off by the idea of dedicating yourself to a commitment to learning.

 

Also, as a current degree student I am constantly insulted by those who believe that young people with a degree dont deserve employment over contractors such as yourself.

I am 29 years old and I study with guys straight out of school. Most of them are capable, intelligent people who deserve all that they work for.

 

I started my degree because as you I felt I was unemployable without one having worked in forestry/arb for around 7 years. In a year from now I will have an education and 10+ years of actual hands on experience. Do I deserve a job?

 

I dont know you so how could i possibly say or comment on your post?

[Gareth Dalzell]

Think about it this way - while it may seem like a challenge it may also be one of the most amazing phases in your life. You will be surrounded by like minded people and academics - you while be able to pursue your passion and take it to another level. Its twenty years now since I graduated from Writtle and the unpinning knowledge that can be installed in a person if they have a passion will stay with you for life as it does with me.

 

Yes there will be people on the course that don't have passion and will drop out of the industry for one reason or another, but you sound like you could gain a whole new level from being on this type of course.

 

It is unfortunate that in modern living it seems to take an academic qual. to gain creditability - however with both academic and your experience you will have the ability to move to that new level you want to - provided you can harness it positively.

When it comes to academic ability i scrapped onto my course with the bare minimum entry requirements and experience, but once on it I sponged it up because at last I was actually doing something that I really wanted to do.

 

Take a deep breath, relax and go for it - take the challenge!

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

Think about it this way - while it may seem like a challenge it may also be one of the most amazing phases in your life. You will be surrounded by like minded people and academics - you while be able to pursue your passion and take it to another level. Its twenty years now since I graduated from Writtle and the unpinning knowledge that can be installed in a person if they have a passion will stay with you for life as it does with me.

 

Yes there will be people on the course that don't have passion and will drop out of the industry for one reason or another, but you sound like you could gain a whole new level from being on this type of course.

 

It is unfortunate that in modern living it seems to take an academic qual. to gain creditability - however with both academic and your experience you will have the ability to move to that new level you want to - provided you can harness it positively.

When it comes to academic ability i scrapped onto my course with the bare minimum entry requirements and experience, but once on it I sponged it up because at last I was actually doing something that I really wanted to do.

 

Take a deep breath, relax and go for it - take the challenge!

 

Thanks for that, and to everyone who commented.

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

Hamadryad, you need to have faith and confidence in yourself n your abilities n stop dragging yourself down.

Judging by the content of your posts you're clearly ahead of the game when it comes down to arb technical stuff, I've been most impressed (n not just saying that to make you feel better...but if it does 'good'!, I'm saying it coz that's what I think.)

 

Bits of paper are important, to a degree (ha!., forgive the pun!), and thanks to the likes of Myerscough in particular there are many more of them around these days and hence employers expect more BUT, not underminingthe degrees at all, and I sincerely wish I had one, any good employer 'worth their salt' will be looking for the 'knowledge' and not the piece of paper!

 

Seems to me you're sufferin a lack of confidence in your own (very real) abilities and, unfortunately, you may be displaying that through your body language to prospective employers.

 

Be proud of your knowledge and considerable experience, 'head up high' n go for it!!!

 

Take care..

Paul

 

PS If you've already started the FdSc I'd sweat it out ofr the first year at least and then you may be eligible to come away with a 'Foundation Certificate' (level 4) which I've just had sight of for the first time....n very nice too!

 

The fact is that MOST of the jobs I need, to get a better position in life and be able to continue learning without living like a student all my life, require me to have survey/consulting/CAD experiance, a degree "would be an advantage" so, all that "experiance" is largley invalid.

 

BUT.... paul there is, thanks to arbtalk a lot of very good, kind words and responses to my many posts. I am thanks to this forum, able to netwrok and im finaly getting asked to take stuff on and gaining new experiences and confidences in areas my current job will niether allow nor "encourage"

 

Its all good, and I owe a lot of thanks to both arb talk and those that have shown a great level of respect for my "experience" and taken a chance on giving me a bit of the work I so desperatley want to do.

 

so to all those, that have helped me out, or said kind words not just in this thread but generaly, thank you. Especialy, to AA teccie, Monkey D, Battiarb, arborist sites for your friendships and support, and to Tony sorensen and Bundle 2 and another who knows who he is (not USUALY is he complimetary!) I thank you three for making me think, for being there to chalenge my views and thoughts which is something I value immensley too.

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

with regards to the degree, it was soooo much harder when i felt "forced" to get it by my industry, however, I now find i can and could by pass it, so now, i want it, rather than NEED it, and thats a whole nuther prospect!

[arbclimber]

with regards to the degree, it was soooo much harder when i felt "forced" to get it by my industry, however, I now find i can and could by pass it, so now, i want it, rather than NEED it, and thats a whole nuther prospect!

 

Thats very true. I rebelled against university when my parents told me I had to go after my A- levels and went out to work instead. I'm glad I did, as I was all set for a Law Degree. About 10 years later, when I actually knew what I wanted to do, I enrolled first for Cert, then Diploma, Degree, and now MSc beckons. I enjoyed all the courses, mainly because it was what I wanted to do, and when I wanted to do it.

 

All the best with your education mate:thumbup1: even if I didn't get a mention in your Oscar acceptance speech.

[Asplen]

have any of you just struggled and winged your way through this kind of thing to a pass?

 

I am so fustrated, kids with degrees get the positions I deserve cos they have a bit of paper, tis the nature of this business now, what chance have I got to compete for these jobs unless I get this degree and how the hell am i supposed to get a decent mark and pass when i am WAY out of my depth not from a knowledge point of view but in a.... argggghhh

 

Just a rant, sick of being left at the bottom cos I havent got a poxy degree or CAD experiance, This degree sucks, I wasnt ready for it and cant cope with the deadlines so hide in arbtalk!

 

Actually doing a degree isn't about a piece of paper, it demonstrates to prospective employers that you can work to deadlines and take the initiative in finding solutions to problems because the lecturers aren't there to hold your hand at all [speaking as a final year BSc Hons undergrad at Myerscough].

 

I'm perplexed by your lack of experience on excel/report writing/cad. If you have a PC and you have an internet connection then all you have to do is type "CAD tutorials" into youtube etc. It's what everyone else is doing, if you cannot write reports or work to deadlines then what use is there in asking for consultancy positions? It just doesn't figure.

 

I hope you don't take this as a personal attack because it is not intended as such; but my advice is to get your arse into gear, start using excel for your expenses, start using the infinite amount of resources out there online to learn how to CAD and just get on with your assignments. Everyone's been there where they got caught short, couldn't be bothered to do a piece of work or whatever - i actually failed a part of one of my assignments recently because I found it tedious and boring; I can cook up any number of reasons why I failed to rationalise it to myself but the key point is that whilst there are plenty of dumb people doing degrees out there they "wing it" because they put the work in.

 

Whether you are bright or not is irrelevant, if you don't work at it it just won't happen, degrees have fallen by the wayside and the common view of them may well be that it's just a bit of paper but it doesn't mean that piece of paper is just going to magically land on your plate because you want it to.

[arbclimber]

Actually doing a degree isn't about a piece of paper, it demonstrates to prospective employers that you can work to deadlines and take the initiative in finding solutions to problems because the lecturers aren't there to hold your hand at all [speaking as a final year BSc Hons undergrad at Myerscough].

 

I'm perplexed by your lack of experience on excel/report writing/cad. If you have a PC and you have an internet connection then all you have to do is type "CAD tutorials" into youtube etc. It's what everyone else is doing, if you cannot write reports or work to deadlines then what use is there in asking for consultancy positions? It just doesn't figure.

 

I hope you don't take this as a personal attack because it is not intended as such; but my advice is to get your arse into gear, start using excel for your expenses, start using the infinite amount of resources out there online to learn how to CAD and just get on with your assignments. Everyone's been there where they got caught short, couldn't be bothered to do a piece of work or whatever - i actually failed a part of one of my assignments recently because I found it tedious and boring; I can cook up any number of reasons why I failed to rationalise it to myself but the key point is that whilst there are plenty of dumb people doing degrees out there they "wing it" because they put the work in.

 

Whether you are bright or not is irrelevant, if you don't work at it it just won't happen, degrees have fallen by the wayside and the common view of them may well be that it's just a bit of paper but it doesn't mean that piece of paper is just going to magically land on your plate because you want it to.

 

Good advice there, i'm sure Hama will take it in the spirit it was written. You are right, there are a lot of dumb people getting degrees but if they want a degree and work bloody hard to get it, are they really that dumb? The learning style for education of degree and above is very much more unsupervised than lower qualifications, it really is a chance to prove you can think for yourself, rather than merely having a piece of paper.

Some courses command much more respect than others, with a huge amount of Mickey Mouse courses about, it is important to pick your course wisely.

 

I think that Degrees generally aren't as well respected as they were as these days, most tend to be gained by those just leaving college, who often just look for the easiest option. It isn't hard to meet the entry requirements these days either. When I was at college I, and many others, did A-level Environmental science in a year as it was easy enough to do the 2 year course in a year, and added vital UCAS points. I dont think people need to bother now, as even with 3 average a-levels you will find some Uni to take you.

 

I still believe though, that a decent degree, backed with a good level of experience will serve you well.