Timber hitch at basal anchor

[daltontrees]

That said I would always use a cinched sling. It seems unwise to be left in a situation where you can't unclip or untie the rope to add extra length. The alpine butterfly is a good idea too.

[Stephen Blair]

21 hours ago, Ledburyjosh said:

That would only work in such a small very precise set of scenarios that it seems not worth the faff and extra rope on the ground.

 

For example, an injury to a climber is most likely to occur when cutting or just after. So they should have a 2nd point of attachment. If they are injured to a point where they can't get themselves down. There are unlikely to be able to remove the 2nd point of attachment. And therefor cannot be lowered by the ground staff. 

Even if they could be lowered it would require a pretty straigh descent and clean rope line to so there is no friction to prevent them coming down through rope drag.

 

Add in 2 ropes to that and it's a fairly futile setup.

 

A good concept but flawed in reality.

Theres a huge difference between undoing 1 twist lock carabiner or cutting a soft link with your silky and then let gravity do the rest to get you out a tree quickly, this can be done easily within 1 minute of an injury, if the climber passes out after that I’d much rather a groundie was in control with both feet on the ground compared to waiting for a climber to dig out his climbing kit, get up the tree and do a dangle rescue.  
  If attaching a friction hitch and having a longer rope is a faff then good luck to you.

[Joe Newton]

15 minutes ago, Stephen Blair said:

Theres a huge difference between undoing 1 twist lock carabiner or cutting a soft link with your silky and then let gravity do the rest to get you out a tree quickly, this can be done easily within 1 minute of an injury, if the climber passes out after that I’d much rather a groundie was in control with both feet on the ground compared to waiting for a climber to dig out his climbing kit, get up the tree and do a dangle rescue.  
  If attaching a friction hitch and having a longer rope is a faff then good luck to you.

Generally speaking most people won't be working on a base tie on any dismantles, rigging works etc. Most will use a base tie for access and then swap over to a canopy anchor for the work, so it's fairly pointless for most real world applications.

 

Also a working base anchor system is usually a bit more involved than just a hitch. 

[Stephen Blair]

Apologies Joe, I thought this thread was about base anchors.  My mistake.  

[Ledburyjosh]

2 hours ago, Stephen Blair said:

Theres a huge difference between undoing 1 twist lock carabiner or cutting a soft link with your silky and then let gravity do the rest to get you out a tree quickly, this can be done easily within 1 minute of an injury, if the climber passes out after that I’d much rather a groundie was in control with both feet on the ground compared to waiting for a climber to dig out his climbing kit, get up the tree and do a dangle rescue.  
  If attaching a friction hitch and having a longer rope is a faff then good luck to you.

Of course set it up how best makes you feel safe.

 

Curious of a couple of things:

How did you feel safety wise prior to SRT and climbed on MRT where none of these was a possibility?

 

Have you ever practised the lowering of a base tie with the rope looped over branches adding friction

Edited February 24, 2023 by Ledburyjosh

[Ledburyjosh]

11 hours ago, daltontrees said:

A timber hitch cinches better around a stem (when pulled form above) than a running bowline does. Add a stopper knot to it and there's no way it will work loose.

It does, its certainly strong hence used for dead eyes etc.

I've never thought to use it as a base tie with a stopper. Probably cause its quicker and uses less rope to tie a bowline. Particularly if tieing midline

 

 

After some more thought I still think the bowline is the better know. Particularly for someone learning. There is less variables than a timber hitch. Such as, how many wraps, wraps or circumference around the stem, how should the wraps be-bunched or spread out, what stopper and where?

A running bowline works, is safe, it's simple.

Edited February 24, 2023 by Ledburyjosh
Added thoughts

[Joe Newton]

1 hour ago, Stephen Blair said:

Apologies Joe, I thought this thread was about base anchors.  My mistake.  

Don't get butt hurt Stevie, you went down the same derail.

 

I have a point and you know it. 

2 hours ago, Stephen Blair said:

Theres a huge difference between undoing 1 twist lock carabiner or cutting a soft link with your silky and then let gravity do the rest to get you out a tree quickly, this can be done easily within 1 minute of an injury, if the climber passes out after that I’d much rather a groundie was in control with both feet on the ground compared to waiting for a climber to dig out his climbing kit, get up the tree and do a dangle rescue.  
  If attaching a friction hitch and having a longer rope is a faff then good luck to you.

 

[Carteeni]

Cheers guys, currently the only one who climbs SRT in the company, so I’m learning as I go, that’s why I keep posting stupid questions in Arbtalk lol.  I’ve been mainly using canopy anchors as we are working in a woodland atm and it’s hard to get the throw line right over the big trees so I’ve been doing canopy anchors and moving them up until I get to the top and pulling the rope through till it hits the ground so it’s retrievalebl

[Stephen Blair]

3 hours ago, Ledburyjosh said:

Of course set it up how best makes you feel safe.

 

Curious of a couple of things:

How did you feel safety wise prior to SRT and climbed on MRT where none of these was a possibility?

 

Have you ever practised the lowering of a base tie with the rope looped over branches adding friction

I don’t climb SRT, my subby  climber has changed onto it recently and he asked me to base tie his rope the other day.  It wasn’t till after he was down I remembered an instructor at a demo day showing us the friction hitch and spare rope.  If there is more to the system then I’d be keen to see so I can use it.
  
I’ve used this method on DRT for years without the friction hitch.  I’d install a rope and pulley with my climbing line on it from the ground if it made life easier.  If the crown allowed it just throw bag in and set up, it would save a lot of climbing to start.
 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mark Bolam]

I wouldn’t use a timber hitch as a base tie.

What a load of bollocks.

 

Running bowline with stopper, butterfly 1m above just in case as Joe said.

 

That’s it.

 

Access only, then canopy tie.

 

’my subbie climber says x’ means f-all.

 

I’d rather listen to a genuine working climber and respect his opinion rather than come up with some contrived bullshit.