Ivy In the UK

[CambridgeJC]

1 minute ago, trigger_andy said:

You really don’t get it do you? 

So that’ll be a no then???

[eggsarascal]

25 minutes ago, CambridgeJC said:

So that’ll be a no then???

He's partly pulling your chain mate, leave him to it. Me and trig get on and he can wind me up.

[Joe Newton]

29 minutes ago, CambridgeJC said:

Why the need to be so personal and insulting! What harm have I ever done to you?

 

OK …so a question for all you “professionals “…

Can a native plant become invasive?

 

Answer that properly and maybe we can have an educated discussion. 

Ouch…this may mean I have to think a bit and use my addled brain. 

The problem is that you don't seem to want a discussion. As I've previously mentioned you patronise anyone that disagrees with you. Your tactics are similar to watching Piers Morgan interview someone.

 

How much research into this topic have you conducted apart from starting numerous threads on a forum where is impossible to verify a person's credentials?

 

There are many online arb courses you could enrol in if knowledge was your endgame, but that's not the case.

 

I'm guessing you're bored and nobody at home is listening to you any more. 

[CambridgeJC]

8 minutes ago, eggsarascal said:

He's partly pulling your chain mate, leave him to it. Me and trig get on and he can wind me up.

I know… seems I’ve managed to stir up a hornet’s nest here🤣🤣🤣

[Dan Maynard]

55 minutes ago, CambridgeJC said:

A pandemic starts with a single infection…draaaa!

 

Should this post run the title “Educating arborists”  ??? 
 

Fortunately most arborists are more informed rhan the critical ones on this  thread … 

I just did a scientific survey and you called me uninformed.

 

Ivy surges and dies like other parts of the ecosystem, like the trees. You seem to have an idea the trees are fixed and the ivy will ruin them, this is false. The trees are also temporary and will all die too, to be replaced by other trees. Woodlands and hedges are dynamic.

 

I remember some real ivy monsters when Dutch elm disease had its latest surge, but there aren't so many big dead elms now. Maybe there will be ash trees full of ivy, maybe they will fall over too soon.

 

Ivy is not invasive by definition, it has been in our ecosystem most likely since soon after the last ice age. It can increase and decrease but it can't be invasive. We don't like it, it's a menace when climbing and hides defects in trees but it is not invading the countryside to the exclusion of native wildlife, in fact it's a really important food source for bees and other insects. When the host dies or the area becomes too hot or dry the ivy will die back. There are balances.

 

Rhododendron on the other hand is properly invasive and causes a real problem across Wales, Scotland and parts of England. Nothing native eats it.

 

I suggest Oliver Rackham's history of the countryside for perspective, and also of the way "conservation" tends to be fashion driven and short term. Bit like the idea of us rushing out to cut ivy because we suddenly decide we don't like it.

 

So, to summarise - you initially asked for professional opinions about whether ivy was taking over the countryside, and from hedge layers to tree surgeon we gave considered opinion that it is not. Enough now, I'm going back to discussing chainsaws and climbing like I usually do.

[CambridgeJC]

7 minutes ago, Joe Newton said:

The problem is that you don't seem to want a discussion. As I've previously mentioned you patronise anyone that disagrees with you. Your tactics are similar to watching Piers Morgan interview someone.

 

How much research into this topic have you conducted apart from starting numerous threads on a forum where is impossible to verify a person's credentials?

 

There are many online arb courses you could enrol in if knowledge was your endgame, but that's not the case.

 

I'm guessing you're bored and nobody at home is listening to you any more. 

Good try!!! Maybe I have learned a lot more than you think…just because I am not an arborist doesn’t mean I know nothing. 
What makes you think I don’t want a discussion? That’s exactly what I do want. But with people who don’t simply want to dismiss an opinion from outside your community. 
Go for it…let’s get a mature discussion going on the issue of whether or not ivy has become invasive and potentially dangerously invasive unless we all recognise the results of neglect. 
That’s the whole point of my involvement. Thanks. John

[CambridgeJC]

4 minutes ago, Dan Maynard said:

I just did a scientific survey and you called me uninformed.

 

Ivy surges and dies like other parts of the ecosystem, like the trees. You seem to have an idea the trees are fixed and the ivy will ruin them, this is false. The trees are also temporary and will all die too, to be replaced by other trees. Woodlands and hedges are dynamic.

 

I remember some real ivy monsters when Dutch elm disease had its latest surge, but there aren't so many big dead elms now. Maybe there will be ash trees full of ivy, maybe they will fall over too soon.

 

Ivy is not invasive by definition, it has been in our ecosystem most likely since soon after the last ice age. It can increase and decrease but it can't be invasive. We don't like it, it's a menace when climbing and hides defects in trees but it is not invading the countryside to the exclusion of native wildlife, in fact it's a really important food source for bees and other insects. When the host dies or the area becomes too hot or dry the ivy will die back. There are balances.

 

Rhododendron on the other hand is properly invasive and causes a real problem across Wales, Scotland and parts of England. Nothing native eats it.

 

I suggest Oliver Rackham's history of the countryside for perspective, and also of the way "conservation" tends to be fashion driven and short term. Bit like the idea of us rushing out to cut ivy because we suddenly decide we don't like it.

 

So, to summarise - you initially asked for professional opinions about whether ivy was taking over the countryside, and from hedge layers to tree surgeon we gave considered opinion that it is not. Enough now, I'm going back to discussing chainsaws and climbing like I usually do.

Thanks for this very well considered reply. I never suggested you personally were uninformed. This response proves that and I thank you for it. We are all just individuals with individual perspectives and different backgrounds and experience/expertise. 
I realise I am an outsider to your community but I believe you guys have a close relationship with such issues and for that reason alone I chose to try to engage with you all collectively in rhe hope of discovering your current attitude towards ivy. Having made frustrating contact with other relevant authorities it became clear that there seems to be very little awareness of the dynamic balance of ivy which appears so clearly evident from my own observations. I am simply trying to find whether I am alone in my observations. My replies both confirm and dismiss this. So I try to provoke discussion in an attempt to find the status of opinion in your arborist community.  That’s all. Thanks 

Oh. And by the way. Any action must be considered carefully before anyone rushes out to eradicate ivy. That’s not what I an suggesting.