Ivy IS a real problem

[Doug Tait]

3 minutes ago, Gimlet said:

A bod who studies stuff that lives, rather than test tubes and things you set fire to, or lecky-tricks, fizzicks and shit...

Thanks Jim.

[Guest Gimlet]

[CambridgeJC]

On 18/04/2022 at 20:53, Stubby said:

I walked through an FC woodland today . I stretches from the top road they call the bengies next to Goodwood estate down to Droke lane if anyone wants to google it . Got to be 100 acres . Predominately a beech plantation with some Larch , Spruce and Ash . Its had second thinnings in the past with racks cut . Recently a timber extradition of , at a guess ,  mabey12% of the standing  ash  . The trees left are on an average 3ft DBH .  There is some ivy but very little . The vast majority of trees are clean . Over the whole plantation I would say 0.5% have ivy on them . Just an observation today .

Thanks Stubby. You’re right. I have been sidetracked by the number of dismissive and disrespectful attempts by others to try to humiliate and provoke me as an outsider from your community. Your comments are fully accepted by me as indeed those of the previous post by Old Mill Tree Care. These posts represent a reasonable and perfectly acceptable post ehich sticks to the point and is both courteous and informative. 

It is sad when others hijack a thread to insult and belittle others. So thanks to you. John

Edited April 20, 2022 by CambridgeJC

[Guest Gimlet]

Is ivy a real problem? 

 

To whom or to what?

 

To the tree surgeon? Yes I would say. Makes work more difficult, dangerous and costly.

To a hedge layer (like myself)? Yes. Does smother, out-shade and out-compete small tree specimens in hedges, and makes the work more difficult and incurs greater labour costs which the customer is rarely willing to pay.

To wildlife? No. Extremely rich habitat.

To veteran trees? Probably not unless they're on their last legs anyway.

To tree diversity? No. They have co-existed for thousands of years without detriment.

To the wider natural environment? No.

To buildings and man-made structures? Definitely. A PITA.

To livestock? No. 

 

Case concluded.

 

[CambridgeJC]

1 hour ago, Gimlet said:

Is ivy a real problem? 

 

To whom or to what?

 

To the tree surgeon? Yes I would say. Makes work more difficult, dangerous and costly.

To a hedge layer (like myself)? Yes. Does smother, out-shade and out-compete small tree specimens in hedges, and makes the work more difficult and incurs greater labour costs which the customer is rarely willing to pay.

To wildlife? No. Extremely rich habitat.

To veteran trees? Probably not unless they're on their last legs anyway.

To tree diversity? No. They have co-existed for thousands of years without detriment.

To the wider natural environment? No.

To buildings and man-made structures? Definitely. A PITA.

To livestock? No. 

 

Case concluded.

 

Good summary but with the proviso that the current levels of observable ivy  may indicate a slow and more uncontrolled expansion which can in future cause a major headache for us all if allowed to go unchecked. That’s the reason I am engaging with you arborists. Some of you, notably Old Mill Tree Care’s observations in Norfolk seem to indicate such a possibility. 
I do not dismiss those whose experience say there is no problem. On the other hand there are those who are very dismissive of my contention. The discussion merits proper and mature engagement from both perspectives. 
It is not really a case conclusion situation quite yet in my opinion. Thanks for your helpful summary. 

 

[CambridgeJC]

4 hours ago, Sutton said:

What have we got?

What's changed and why?

Are we going to do anything about it and who's paying?

What makes you think I have jumped to a conclusion? 
I am simply asking if anyone else has noticed a slow steady increase in ivy which could amount to us allowing it to become a problem for trees and hedgerows. There are certainly some other people here who appear to support the hypothesis. 
I have a lifetime of scientific method behind me and do not jump to conclusions. That’s why I am persisting in the quest for educated input from you guys. Firstly I asked for information which I needed to minimise risk of saying anything stupid. Then I felt able to ask for feedback and observations. This is still in progress and on advice I initiated a poll which may be helpful. But I have certainly not come to any conclusion. And to date noone has commented on my suggestion that a native species like ivy can or cannot become invasive in a growth expansion context. 

[Conor Wright]

But  ivy doesn't go unchecked, it's constantly kept in check by arborists, landscapers, maintenance crews, farmers, livestock and by the constraints of nature. 

It's benefits outweigh it's negatives in the natural world so it should not be eradicated and its potential to cause damage is well known within engineering and construction circles so it is kept in check. Within arb it's well known to be a pita but also an intrinsic part of the ecosystem and is managed as such by most. 

If you want to discuss actual problems in arb or trees generally maybe a discussion on imported pests and diseases or the failure to plant adequately for the future?

Ivy is,has and always will be. Its not gonna cross the road in the morning and invade your house and its not gonna disappear either. You could have the same argument about moss, It's part of nature's cycle. 

Out of interest what are you planning to do with the information you're gathering here? 

Fwiw you would probably have furthered your own cause more by just nipping out and cutting whatever ivy it is that bothers you the most rather than overthinking it on here!

[CambridgeJC]

2 hours ago, Conor Wright said:

But  ivy doesn't go unchecked, it's constantly kept in check by arborists, landscapers, maintenance crews, farmers, livestock and by the constraints of nature. 

It's benefits outweigh it's negatives in the natural world so it should not be eradicated and its potential to cause damage is well known within engineering and construction circles so it is kept in check. Within arb it's well known to be a pita but also an intrinsic part of the ecosystem and is managed as such by most. 

If you want to discuss actual problems in arb or trees generally maybe a discussion on imported pests and diseases or the failure to plant adequately for the future?

Ivy is,has and always will be. Its not gonna cross the road in the morning and invade your house and its not gonna disappear either. You could have the same argument about moss, It's part of nature's cycle. 

Out of interest what are you planning to do with the information you're gathering here? 

Fwiw you would probably have furthered your own cause more by just nipping out and cutting whatever ivy it is that bothers you the most rather than overthinking it on here!

I’d have a job with that😂😂😂

This seems countrywide but certainly all over East Anglia. Old Mill Tree Care’s description is spot on. We both see rampant ivy clogging up hedgerows and increasingly thicker at height in the canopy. I don’t know if it can be controlled. But it certainly cannot be if is not taken seriously. 
Ivy certainly grows unchecked in large swathes of our countryside and probably due to modern farming practices and land ownership/management. 
That’s the reason for my intervention here. 
Just hoping for your thoughts as if my concerns are real then some big thinking is required.

If you think I am wrong then I hope the situation doesn’t escalate. I am open to persuasion. 

[CambridgeJC]

16 hours ago, Joe Newton said:

This should be interesting...

 

It's fair to say that you've been dismissed by a few including myself as an irritating poster with little merit to the conversation that makes this forum enjoyable to many.

 

This has possibly been because of your dismissive or provocative attitude to the time served tree workers who have wasted their time replying to you when it doesn't suit your narrative.

 

It's nothing to do with your lack of arb background. There's plenty of long standing contributors who aren't in the arb industry specifically. It's to do with your attitude. You ask for opinions and demand credentials from those who reply, and yet you offer nothing in return.

 

This whole post is pointless though. People like yourself are incapable of introspect.

People like me eh?

What would they be like then?

 

[Conor Wright]

What you're seeing is part of a natural cycle in the lifetime of a woodland tree, poor hedge management may be a different story, but ivy can be a part of a mixed hedge to a degree. The abandonment of proper hedgerow maintenance in favour of electric fencing has reduced the ability of livestock to nibble away at ivy leaves but it's not as if its starting to invade the fields!

Ash dieback is certainly helping the visibility of ivy but its just a natural reaction of a plant being given a better chance to grow. 

What is this big thinking you speak of? 

To be honest, we're mostly straightforward hardworking people here and your style of language may come across as speaking down to some of us. A little less formality might help get you a bit further. 

In an ideal world minor offenders would be out doing the dirty work like litter picking, keeping overgrowth down on verges etc, then there wouldn't be this ivy issue you speak of, or a litter issue which is far more environmentally damaging. A lot of England is plain filthy. At least the ivy helps hide the rubbish.