renovating apple trees

[madm]

Hi all, long time since I've been on here, I blame the slow internet connection, wrecks my head. But I have a conundrum and I thought this the best place to ask! I have some old apple trees to prune and the problem is that they are 15-20 metres high. The owner obviously wants them at a much more manageable height and I'm worried about a)taking that much of the crown off in one go, and b)having to reduce branches (and trunks!) back to before any growth points. Basically, I'm scared of killing them!!!

Does anyone have any good advice?

Glad to see ye're all still going strong by the way;-)

Edited February 4, 2010 by madm

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

well for a start they aint 20 metres tall! nor 15mtrs!

 

did you mean feet?

 

reduce them by 25% this time allow some regrowth and then youll have better options next prune.

[RPA]

As above.

 

Do the reduction first (max 30% total) then start the prune next year. No quick fix IMO

[sean freeman]

I think most of us understand your concerns about the potential negative impacts on the trees...and the easy phrases 25%, 30% I suspect are not really all that helpful...I can do no better than to quote Tony Sorensen's post on the topic of just what 30% does or rather does not mean...

 

don't see why anyone should be writing a spec that just includes a percentage without explaining it. It takes seconds to describe works accurately - I suspect people either;

can't be bothered,

don't know what they're doing or

expect to get the work,

 

Honestly, if you're going to use a percentage - state what it's a percentage of! Otherwise you might as well say "cut off not too much and not too little."

 

I use the metres from the outer limit of the crown method and often specify a maximum cut diameter as well. Of course, I'm not going to climb the tree with a set of callipers but it communicates my expectations. Everyone can be on the same page.

 

I've often thought we should spec what's going to be left of the tree rather than whats coming off. The cut diameter is part of that but maybe something like;

 

Undertake a crown reduction by the removal of no more than 2m of the outermost canopy back to suitable secondary growth points, leaving minimum crown dimensions of 8m radial spread and 18m overall height at any one point. Resulting pruning cuts must not exceed 150mm in diameter.

 

That took 20 odd seconds to write, its not hard. Just a tiny bit more effort (more so on large numbers of trees!)

 

I know people like a flexible spec so they can make their own judgements when climbing and react to the pruning points - fair enough, there is room for leeway but it fundamentally ties down what the hell is going to happen to the tree.

[mdvaden]

well for a start they aint 20 metres tall! nor 15mtrs!

 

did you mean feet?

 

reduce them by 25% this time allow some regrowth and then youll have better options next prune.

 

Don't neglected fruit trees grow that tall there?

 

 

Someone in Portland has had me out two years now to bring their yard under control, and one apple tree they want to save, is about 18 meters tall. I said that I may never be able to bring it down to less than 7 meters, and that it may take 6 years.

 

They don't even care about fruit, they just like the tree. At least for now. So I'm must doing thinning, corrective pruning and some preliminary crown reduction.

 

My advice to the person who posted, is that there is not need to remove all problems in one year. It take years to even develop from scratch the right way, and it takes years if not a decade sometimes to re-develop and correct a neglected fruit tree.

 

Other than that, maybe get a book. I just instructed a group of a dozen folks on-site at their property. And it was evident that fruit tree pruning is a challenge to teach, even right in front of someone's face. So I rarely get burned out trying to explain too much detail online.

 

[RPA]

Sean

 

What you say and Tonys quote is of course correct for a proper spec and exactly as I would write for example a con area tree work application.

 

To me the nature of the original question led me to believe that madm may be considering a drastic reduction in view of the customers request. The site has many members from total novices to experts. It is therefore still valid in my view that as an overall guide to start from max 30% is establised for any one operation. I am sure that without seeing the tree even Tony would be unable to apply his spec to the job.

 

No disrespect ment to madm who I am quite sure is capable of working out how much he can take from the tree and then converting it to hight/crown spread etc in m/ft or whatever.

[sean freeman]

Hi edenarb,

 

I guess I should have written slightly more text, I did not mean to suggest that the advice given by you was inappropriate just that it is a term many of us (myself included) use with ease yet the assumption that the person recieving the advice understands what it is we mean is often not true.

 

That having been said I agree when someone is considering removing virtually all of the live foliage (potentially in one go) then even a general sense of only removing 30% is appropriate.

 

I guess I was just looking for an excuse to repeat Tony's specs since I think they are a brilliant example of how clarity can be gained with the application of Abroicultural understanding (I think I'll steal the specs:sneaky2:)

 

In terms of the problem originally posted I wonder if the tree owner wants the trees to be commercially productive in any sense or just easier to manage?

[nepia]

I'm worried about a)taking that much of the crown off in one go, and b)having to reduce branches (and trunks!) back to before any growth points. Basically, I'm scared of killing them!!!

Does anyone have any good advice?

Glad to see ye're all still going strong by the way;-)

 

You get the point; work in annual stages. I've just finished this year's work on one that I started 5 and 4 years ago; I wasn't asked back for three years and I've now done the third lot of work. I reckon there are another two attacks before the tree's back to the desired dimensions but there will still be annual maintenance after that.

I'd start with deadwooding, removing damaged and rubbing branches, then take some height off - this year.

 

Good luck - sounds like a project.

[detritus21]

I've got one to do close to 20feet. Previously badly topped everything back to the main branches lots of stubs etc now lots of new growth. I'm reducing it by about 40% of its overall crown. Its a bit more than you'd want to take as can reduce fruiting next year. The ideal amount is about 30% length of new growth each year this would provide sufficient new growth for fruiting without overloading the tree. Plan with the one I'm doing is to be a little harsh this year and get it back on track next.