When your rope isn't long enough...

[Slad]

I was climbing a large pine (double rope, MRS, fresh from my climbing course) and I got to the point where my shiny new 35m ropes weren't long enough, the ends were of the ground.  I had a two ring cambium saver, so left a single rope fixed and went back down (winds picking up anyway).  A couple of storms later I spiked up the tree using the fixed line attached using my locker (fall arrest).  This time I took up a 50m line as well.

 

As it happened, there was no point in going higher (the storms had destroyed the nest I was going to put a camera on). 

 

And here's my first question:

How would you deal with a climb where the rope is too short?

 

Coming down, I wanted to get all the kit down and wanted to abseil down rather than spike. 

 

Second question:

How would you arrange the ropes so you could get down on them but be able to get all the kit down afterwards?

 

I know how to join two ropes with stopper knots and could have used the knot to jam the cambium saver and abseil down, but I didn't fancy trusting to that when I had other kit.  What I did was put a carabiner through the eye on the first rope and connected the second rope to the carabiner. The carabiner was the jam and I used my ID to abseil down. Metal on metal wasn't nice and I was pretty much spiking down anyway in case the crab broke the cambium saver (not likely, but...).

 

So, what would you do?

 

[JackR]

Take off your cambian saver and descend about half way bare back.
 

Once your half way or at a point when you’re comfortable your rope can get you all the way down attach yourself to the tree via your side strop or secondary system.

 

Pull the main system out from the top anchor. Reattch main system at the new lower anchor. 
 

Continue descent until you reach the tea and biscuits. 

[peds]

People might think I'm being soft here, but in my humble opinion, you really shouldn't be spiking up or down trees that you don't intend to put on the ground. 

 

To prevent wear and tear on the crotch that your rope is running over after removing your cambium saver, pull the rope through until both strands are the same length, and rappel on both strands using a suitable device. Descending a static rope is kinder to the cambium than a running rope. When near the ends (feel free to tie a knot in each end if you like, or just be really careful), strop on, pull your ropes, reset. Don't forget to pull your rope through the crotch you'll be using as your next anchor before bringing it all down, or you'll have to pull it through twice. Or worse, you might drop it all. Whoops!

[Khriss]

Where is this ? CAMERAS? K

[peds]

I have two addenda.

 

Firstly, pretty much the best way to join two rope ends together for any application other than a prusik loop is with the affectionately-named European Death Knot, or the simple overhand. By the time you've tied your first half of your fisherman's, your European neighbour in the tree next door will already be on the ground enjoying a croissant.

 

Secondly, if you expect to be in a lot of trees needing a full rope length to descend and don't want the hassle of resetting an anchor half way down, bring your throw line up with you, cinch it onto the fat end of the cambium saver and retrieve your system with that.

Google "tag line rappel" for all the info you need.

[carlos]

i would always take my cambium saver out if i was finished in the tree and the cambium saver was nearby, then just put your mainline rope around a suitable anchor branch and descend, much easier than trying to retrieve the cambium saver  from the ground.

i would always try and ensure i had enough rope to get to the ground through out the climb

[Slad]

On 11/03/2022 at 19:44, peds said:

People might think I'm being soft here, but in my humble opinion, you really shouldn't be spiking up or down trees that you don't intend to put on the ground. 

No, I agree.  There's a bit of history to this re - nesting birds - Page 8 - Trees and the Law - Arbtalk | The Social Network For Arborists . It's already been spiked.  The tree will come down in due course, just not yet. It looks like a dartboard from the last climber and my ropes/prussiks are covered in pine-smelling snot.  The reason for climbing this time was to put a camera on the nest so we could check if it is occupied and see what happens; the ringers have been told not to come back and we wanted to make sure that was the case (and see the birds; if they're going to stop play in the woods, I want to see what they're up to).  I climbed using just ropes, pruning the pine as I went so the nest could be seen from part of the ground. It took me hours (lots of small branches, hard to throw because of other trees, no experience of climbing pine trees etc etc).  Because of the high winds, for the second climb I didn't want to hang about so I spiked up. Damage has been done and the nest isn't on this tree. 

 

 

[Slad]

On 11/03/2022 at 22:05, peds said:

I have two addenda.

 

Firstly, pretty much the best way to join two rope ends together for any application other than a prusik loop is with the affectionately-named European Death Knot, or the simple overhand. By the time you've tied your first half of your fisherman's, your European neighbour in the tree next door will already be on the ground enjoying a croissant.

 

Secondly, if you expect to be in a lot of trees needing a full rope length to descend and don't want the hassle of resetting an anchor half way down, bring your throw line up with you, cinch it onto the fat end of the cambium saver and retrieve your system with that.

Google "tag line rappel" for all the info you need.

Thanks, that's useful; googling European Death Knot now!

 

Great idea using the throwing line, wish I'd thought of that. 🙄

 

 

Now, does anyone know how to get pine sap out of ropes?  

[Slad]

Very good video showing slipping loads for the knots being talked about.

 

Which knot should you use for joining ropes? - YouTube