loler lowering rope??

[educated arborist]

There Is Nothing Wrong with climbining on unce'd gear in the uk providing that:

1) it is fit for purpouse

2)it is subject to a 'thorough examination' by a 'compitant person' (a loler inspection) BEFORE it is put in to use.

Its a real shitter that wrong & missleading information is posted on this forum, often by people who should know better!

 

"CE marking" is a process that applies to a wide variety of products and one which manufacturers located in the EU or importers of goods into the EU must complete. The CE mark is affixed to the product as the final stage of this process and is effectively a statement from the manufacturer (or importer) that the process has been successfully completed and that the product meets the essential requirements of the relevant CE marking Directives.

The principal point of CE marking is to provide a ‘level playing field’ of market requirements across the European Community. Effectively, this removes barriers to trade throughout the European Economic Area, allowing companies free access to markets in all the different countries without having to meet particular local requirements.

It has sweet FA to do with the loler regs! other than that providing an item of personal lifting equipment is percured with a certificate of conformity it shall not need inspecting before first use!

Mind you what is the point of posting up this factual, true information to allow everyone to make an informed choice/ purchase when someone will simply post that it is all wrong?

[Craig Johnson]

reg 9 not been changed as far as i know, which is not much. it says that all suppliers must ensure that all ppe is safe, i.e must satisfy the basic health and safety requirements that are applicable to that type or class of PPE and the appropriate conformity assessment procedure must be carried out, if there is one applicable and a CE mark must be affixed on the PPE. you are also considered a supplier if you bring ppe into service.

fit for purpose is a good argument and can be backed up buy manufactures spec's, but if you end up in court on this, you will lose.

[Pete Mctree]

Mind you what is the point of posting up this factual, true information to allow everyone to make an informed choice/ purchase when someone will simply post that it is all wrong?

 

I think that on this issue that you are incorrect. The precident you are setting, through your inspecting of such items, could have strong legal ramifications if a worse case scenario was to ccour, for yourself and perhaps others.

[dillsue]

There Is Nothing Wrong with climbining on unce'd gear in the uk providing that:

1) it is fit for purpouse

2)it is subject to a 'thorough examination' by a 'compitant person' (a loler inspection) BEFORE it is put in to use.

Its a real shitter that wrong & missleading information is posted on this forum, often by people who should know better!

 

"CE marking" is a process that applies to a wide variety of products and one which manufacturers located in the EU or importers of goods into the EU must complete. The CE mark is affixed to the product as the final stage of this process and is effectively a statement from the manufacturer (or importer) that the process has been successfully completed and that the product meets the essential requirements of the relevant CE marking Directives.

The principal point of CE marking is to provide a ‘level playing field’ of market requirements across the European Community. Effectively, this removes barriers to trade throughout the European Economic Area, allowing companies free access to markets in all the different countries without having to meet particular local requirements.

It has sweet FA to do with the loler regs! other than that providing an item of personal lifting equipment is percured with a certificate of conformity it shall not need inspecting before first use!

Mind you what is the point of posting up this factual, true information to allow everyone to make an informed choice/ purchase when someone will simply post that it is all wrong?

 

From what I understand CE marking is mandatory for high risk PPE such as climbing gear, which requires indendant type testing and approval and is not at the descretion of the manufacturer. A declaration of conformity is just the manufactures statement of compliance with standards, but the manufacture would be stupid not to say that!

 

The AA Guide to good climbing practice states that climbing gear should be CE marked. More importantly the HSE state that PPE should be CE marked. Any fabric climbing gear(rope, harnesses, tapes etc) that pre dates CE marking should have been retired years ago so the only kit that can be LOLERed today should have a CE mark(old metallic components excepted)

 

The principle point of CE marking is ensuring safety- its a statement of compliance with Essential Health and Safety Regulations.

[educated arborist]

reg 9 also states that if it does not have a COC then it should be subject to a thorough examination before use.

So are you sugesting that an aftermarket splice is illegal? are you sugesting that manufac' proto types must not be tested in the feild prior to CE certification? There have been a number of cases regarding the use of un ce'd personal lifting equipment (admitidly not in arb) but on these presidents i'd be prety confident in court. In other idustries there are some very clear provisions for the use of equipment which is not ce marked.

[Tom@EVA]

OK bare with me this is a little long but I'm going to quote from the Lantra 'Thorough Examination of Arb Equipment' guidelines.

 

LOLER is built on many other regulations including PUWER - Provision and use of work equipment regs 1998 which states that equipment must be 'appropriate for task' thus manufacturers take this into account when designing and constructing equipment and so they provide a 'declaration of conformity,' to say it conforms to the relevant standards. However its also requires/ is based on PPEWR 1992 - personal protective equipment at work regs 1992 which states that all PPE must be maintained, in a good state of repair etc. etc. AND that it has a 'Certificate of Conformity', indicating the standard to which the equipment conforms to (which prevents it having to be tested prior to first use) AND a CE mark. So LOLER requires PPEWR and PPEWR says Certificate of Conformity AND CE mark.

 

'CE: is a mark present on PPE and other items to certify that a product conforms to the European Directives and is therefore appropriate for use within Europe.'

 

EN: 'European Norm - indicates that an item of equipment has to be manufactured to conform to the relevant standard for that equipment.' and in the UK this is a UK BS EN number. The EN number is more important than the CE mark because ...

 

PPE - Type III or Complex PPE protects against mortal danger (This is our climbing PPE) and must undergo independent testing to European standards or 'Norms'

 

So a sit harness which protects against falls from height (Type III/Compex PPE) MUST have a BS EN 813 number or it will fail a LOLER inspection.

 

'This system is designed to protect against trade barriers within the EU and although not a mark or quality, its presence on Type III products, which are independently tested to a standard, may be taken as such. ALL items of PPE should conform to appropriate CE standards.'

 

Also 'repairs, alterations or modifications should only be carried out by the manufacturer otherwise the CE mark will become invalidated' ... So LOLER says NO after-market splicing at home etc. because as an inspector we cannot be sure that it is safe, we cannot see the internals of the splice. By passing such items as 'safe to use' the inspector is taking a risk because they cannot be sure and so would find themselves in trouble should there be an accident or failure. You would be shafted in court me thinks!

 

Hope this clarifies the situation a bit.

[Craig Johnson]

OK bare with me this is a little long but I'm going to quote from the Lantra 'Thorough Examination of Arb Equipment' guidelines.

 

LOLER is built on many other regulations including PUWER - Provision and use of work equipment regs 1998 which states that equipment must be 'appropriate for task' thus manufacturers take this into account when designing and constructing equipment and so they provide a 'declaration of conformity,' to say it conforms to the relevant standards. However its also requires/ is based on PPEWR 1992 - personal protective equipment at work regs 1992 which states that all PPE must be maintained, in a good state of repair etc. etc. AND that it has a 'Certificate of Conformity', indicating the standard to which the equipment conforms to (which prevents it having to be tested prior to first use) AND a CE mark. So LOLER requires PPEWR and PPEWR says Certificate of Conformity AND CE mark.

 

'CE: is a mark present on PPE and other items to certify that a product conforms to the European Directives and is therefore appropriate for use within Europe.'

 

EN: 'European Norm - indicates that an item of equipment has to be manufactured to conform to the relevant standard for that equipment.' and in the UK this is a UK BS EN number. The EN number is more important than the CE mark because ...

 

PPE - Type III or Complex PPE protects against mortal danger (This is our climbing PPE) and must undergo independent testing to European standards or 'Norms'

 

So a sit harness which protects against falls from height (Type III/Compex PPE) MUST have a BS EN 813 number or it will fail a LOLER inspection.

 

'This system is designed to protect against trade barriers within the EU and although not a mark or quality, its presence on Type III products, which are independently tested to a standard, may be taken as such. ALL items of PPE should conform to appropriate CE standards.'

 

Also 'repairs, alterations or modifications should only be carried out by the manufacturer otherwise the CE mark will become invalidated' ... So LOLER says NO after-market splicing at home etc. because as an inspector we cannot be sure that it is safe, we cannot see the internals of the splice. By passing such items as 'safe to use' the inspector is taking a risk because they cannot be sure and so would find themselves in trouble should there be an accident or failure. You would be shafted in court me thinks!

 

Hope this clarifies the situation a bit.

 

not going in to the whole splicing thing as its been covered to death and i have a foot in both camps! but isnt splicing just a type of knot?

[dillsue]

Awesome response.

 

Bottom line is HSE say PPE should have CE mark which makes the requirements crystal clear to me.

[hazzygawa]

so what is the mbs swl of 19mm portland as i cant find it anywhere. The bunf talks about average breaking strain, but what does that mean in laymens.??

 

 

H

[educated arborist]

so what is the mbs swl of 19mm portland as i cant find it anywhere. The bunf talks about average breaking strain, but what does that mean in laymens.??

 

 

H

 

8164kg is the average break strain, for typical arboricultural rigging operations apply a safety factor of 10-1 round it to nearest 50= SWL 800kg