What is this please....

[Stubby]

3 minutes ago, CambridgeJC said:

Thanks. You’re right. I can’t stop climate change. But if enough people recognise the issues raised by uncontrolled ivy invasion then together those in the industry can start to take responsible remedial action to lessen the impact and retain some semblance of control over this encroachment by ivy. I suspect it is going unnoticed at the moment or at least the risks are not fully recognised. Even by those in authority over our countryside and woodlands. I am talking to them independently but its not a comfortable subject for them for some reason. 

I really do think its always been there but hey ....

[gary112]

2 minutes ago, Stubby said:

I really do think its always been there but hey ....

I think the same Stubby,nothings changed

[Stubby]

Just now, gary112 said:

I think the same Stubby,nothings changed

I am another year older but ...🙂

[CambridgeJC]

8 minutes ago, gary112 said:

I still don,t see the big panic about it,i,ve lived and worked in the countryside all my life(50yrs)and to be honest i don,t see this big change your talking of,there,s always been ivy and probably always will be,just not seeing the big problem

Thanks. Its not so much a panic…more of an alert and a call to arms as this is most certainly a developing potential menace to our ecologically stable countryside. 

[gary112]

2 minutes ago, CambridgeJC said:

Thanks. Its not so much a panic…more of an alert and a call to arms as this is most certainly a developing potential menace to our ecologically stable countryside. 

No don,t see it myself, but good luck in your quest to prove otherwise

[Peasgood]

I just looked back to the beginning of the thread for some reason ( didn't realise it was an old one) and was surprised to read so many not realising the same plant can have different foliage on mature and juvenile growth.

Ivy (H.helix) has the classic ivy leaf appearance when on young juvenile growth, this is usually the climbing bit that is searching out new space, either vertically or horizontally. Once it has occupied and established itself in that space any new foliage is longer, round edged and pointed only at one end, this is the mature growth foliage.

Other plants also have different foliage as they mature, eucalyptus is a good example where the foliage on young growth has a pronounced round shape and is often sessile (without stalk). This is the stuff favoured by florists and eucs are often treated as pollards in order to produce this foliage for the floristry business. Then the leaves on the mature growth is elongated and usually does have some sort of stalk.

Beech (and oak) have a different foliage in as much as the young growth will hold onto its leaves over winter. You will all have seen a beech hedge in winter with its typically brown leaves still on it. Beech trees don't hold their leaves though do they. That is what the difference is and why beech are chosen as hedging in the first place. The annual clipping ensures they always have leaf retaining juvenile growth.

 

No I do not have a reference to any of that, I learnt it age 11 and my teacher long since passed away.

[Stubby]

16 minutes ago, Peasgood said:

I just looked back to the beginning of the thread for some reason ( didn't realise it was an old one) and was surprised to read so many not realising the same plant can have different foliage on mature and juvenile growth.

Ivy (H.helix) has the classic ivy leaf appearance when on young juvenile growth, this is usually the climbing bit that is searching out new space, either vertically or horizontally. Once it has occupied and established itself in that space any new foliage is longer, round edged and pointed only at one end, this is the mature growth foliage.

Other plants also have different foliage as they mature, eucalyptus is a good example where the foliage on young growth has a pronounced round shape and is often sessile (without stalk). This is the stuff favoured by florists and eucs are often treated as pollards in order to produce this foliage for the floristry business. Then the leaves on the mature growth is elongated and usually does have some sort of stalk.

Beech (and oak) have a different foliage in as much as the young growth will hold onto its leaves over winter. You will all have seen a beech hedge in winter with its typically brown leaves still on it. Beech trees don't hold their leaves though do they. That is what the difference is and why beech are chosen as hedging in the first place. The annual clipping ensures they always have leaf retaining juvenile growth.

 

No I do not have a reference to any of that, I learnt it age 11 and my teacher long since passed away.

This all day long . I did post as such only much shorter .

[CambridgeJC]

1 hour ago, Stubby said:

This all day long . I did post as such only much shorter .

Thanks to all contributors here. I am simply trying to find out some facts about ivy as an interested older person who has noticed the apparent rather extreme growth of ivy in our countryside trees and hedgerows. It was not like this only a few years ago and now whole copses are smothered in ivy. In my ignorance I considered it could be an invasive species such as Hedera canariensis. My identification app SEEK suggests this. But on further investigation it is more likely the leaf variant of Helix. So thats ok for an identification. But it doesn’t change the fact that there still appears to be a recent huge appearance of overloaded trees and hedgerows locally in Cambridge area. It may extend mich further and certainly includes Suffolk and Norfolk. Possibly countrywide. If so we need to know. I know more now ivy having read your various comments. Thanks. 

[CambridgeJC]

4 hours ago, Peasgood said:

I just looked back to the beginning of the thread for some reason ( didn't realise it was an old one) and was surprised to read so many not realising the same plant can have different foliage on mature and juvenile growth.

Ivy (H.helix) has the classic ivy leaf appearance when on young juvenile growth, this is usually the climbing bit that is searching out new space, either vertically or horizontally. Once it has occupied and established itself in that space any new foliage is longer, round edged and pointed only at one end, this is the mature growth foliage.

Other plants also have different foliage as they mature, eucalyptus is a good example where the foliage on young growth has a pronounced round shape and is often sessile (without stalk). This is the stuff favoured by florists and eucs are often treated as pollards in order to produce this foliage for the floristry business. Then the leaves on the mature growth is elongated and usually does have some sort of stalk.

Beech (and oak) have a different foliage in as much as the young growth will hold onto its leaves over winter. You will all have seen a beech hedge in winter with its typically brown leaves still on it. Beech trees don't hold their leaves though do they. That is what the difference is and why beech are chosen as hedging in the first place. The annual clipping ensures they always have leaf retaining juvenile growth.

 

No I do not have a reference to any of that, I learnt it age 11 and my teacher long since passed away.

Thanks to Peasgood. Your school teacher has been shown to be quite correct and for that I am also grateful. I have found a really good 2011 review on “heteroblasty”. This is the scientific term for changing leaf (and other) plant forms/size as the plant develops from juvenile to adult/reproductive stages. It explains everything regarding ivy and my specific concerns. Ot also suggests the reason for possible environmental or climate driven expansion of vegetative adult ivy/liana species here in the uk. 
The woodland and countryside community could be encouraged to check this out with regard to the potential observable changes occurring to trees and hedgerows as I have described. 
 

https://www.thefreelibrary.com/Heteroblasty--a+review.-a0259155098

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Heteroblasty--a review. - Free Online Library

WWW.THEFREELIBRARY.COM

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Free Online Library: Heteroblasty--a review.(Report) by "The Botanical Review"; Biological sciences...

Quotation therefrom:

While tree saplings invest in own stem and branches, "juveniles" of climbing plants depend on structural support from other plants for further access to the canopy. Contact can be achieved by skototropism, i.e. growth towards the shade (Strong & Ray, 1975). Once a trunk is reached, there is a switch to positively phototropic growth. This phenomenon is little studied, but suggests a change in tropic response during ontogeny in addition to any morphological variation.
 

Elsewhere it describes drivers including ecological and potentially environmental pressures which of course can trigger wholesale changes to the growth profile of a species across a large geographical area. 

 

Thanks to all for enabling me to find  this informative document which is so relevant to the ivy issue. 

 

 

 

Edited February 6, 2022 by CambridgeJC

[CambridgeJC]

4 hours ago, Peasgood said:

 

 

 

 

Edited February 6, 2022 by CambridgeJC
Duplicate posted in error