Unqualified chainsaw users

[Paddy1000111]

1 minute ago, Stubby said:

Pretty much cancels out your whole post then . 

Not really, only reason I reference the aircraft industry is because every accident/mistake was investigated, reported and made into a document which everyone had to read and sign. If bobs tree surgery company fires a log through someones roof no-one really hears about it. 

Whilst I was in that industry around 3x more old experienced guys were investigated and fired for safety critical accidents caused by negligence than young guys. Thinking back through the years, I can only think of one young guy who was fired but that was because he was generally shit at his job and they spend months giving warnings for general lack of work, they never actually fired him for a safety related mistake. I could write you a list of guys who were fired and their name largely "black listed" in the industry because they had done something "because they always have" or "they know best" and it either caused an accident/crash or was picked up before something happened. 

 

One of the most expensive examples was a young new lad disconnected a link on the flaps. He did all the paperwork, pulled all the CB's, put a cover on the flap lever marked "do not operate" and put a big piece of red tape hanging off the part so it was obvious. Night shift came in and a guy with 20+ years of experience had a test to do, he's seen it and done it a million times before. The safety covers and CB's are always left pulled out throughout the check for safety so he did his thing. He jumped in the cockpit, reset the CB's and actuated the flap lever. The link the young lad disconnected for maintenance went straight through the carbon fibre flap and did £400,000 in damage. 

 

I would say, in my experience anyway, that I have seen more dangerous "I know best, I've seen this before, I've done this before" stuff from guys who've done it for years than I have seen from young lads who've been doing it for minutes as they haven't developed the shortcuts and negligence. Obviously having the ability and experience to do the job in the first place is different again, it's a tough balance. 

[Stubby]

3 minutes ago, Paddy1000111 said:

Not really, only reason I reference the aircraft industry is because every accident/mistake was investigated, reported and made into a document which everyone had to read and sign. If bobs tree surgery company fires a log through someones roof no-one really hears about it. 

Whilst I was in that industry around 3x more old experienced guys were investigated and fired for safety critical accidents caused by negligence than young guys. Thinking back through the years, I can only think of one young guy who was fired but that was because he was generally shit at his job and they spend months giving warnings for general lack of work, they never actually fired him for a safety related mistake. I could write you a list of guys who were fired and their name largely "black listed" in the industry because they had done something "because they always have" or "they know best" and it either caused an accident/crash or was picked up before something happened. 

 

One of the most expensive examples was a young new lad disconnected a link on the flaps. He did all the paperwork, pulled all the CB's, put a cover on the flap lever marked "do not operate" and put a big piece of red tape hanging off the part so it was obvious. Night shift came in and a guy with 20+ years of experience had a test to do, he's seen it and done it a million times before. The safety covers and CB's are always left pulled out throughout the check for safety so he did his thing. He jumped in the cockpit, reset the CB's and actuated the flap lever. The link the young lad disconnected for maintenance went straight through the carbon fibre flap and did £400,000 in damage. 

 

I would say, in my experience anyway, that I have seen more dangerous "I know best, I've seen this before, I've done this before" stuff from guys who've done it for years than I have seen from young lads who've been doing it for minutes as they haven't developed the shortcuts and negligence. Obviously having the ability and experience to do the job in the first place is different again, it's a tough balance. 

To Quote you " overeager young lad verses calm professional "  So basically every one and no one .

[Paddy1000111]

1 minute ago, Stubby said:

To Quote you " overeager young lad verses calm professional "  So basically every one and no one .

My point with that was that it comes down more to personality than anything else. You could have a young lad with a square head who goes slow and safe. You might have a young lad who is cocky, but the cocky lad doesn't tend to last long in any industry or at least has a very poor reputation.

Same with the older guys, you might have a guy who is switched on and cares about what he's doing but at the same time you might have the older guy who is cocky with age/knowledge and knows best. 

 

All I know is that I have personally seen more major incidents (high value damage/risk of life) from the cocky old guys who know best than the young inexperienced lads. The rate of accident is usually higher with the young lad but it's more a case of spraining a wrist, knocking an ornament over, breaking a bit of equipment or damaging a fence etc.

 

I don't think anyone on here has to worry about being the old cocky guy though. If you're doing arb related stuff after work, you're not the complacent bloke. I think seeing and talking about stuff on here is similar to the read and signs in the aircraft industry, keeps everyone aware of new rules and on their toes. 

[Stubby]

6 minutes ago, Paddy1000111 said:

My point with that was that it comes down more to personality than anything else. You could have a young lad with a square head who goes slow and safe. You might have a young lad who is cocky, but the cocky lad doesn't tend to last long in any industry or at least has a very poor reputation.

Same with the older guys, you might have a guy who is switched on and cares about what he's doing but at the same time you might have the older guy who is cocky with age/knowledge and knows best. 

 

All I know is that I have personally seen more major incidents (high value damage/risk of life) from the cocky old guys who know best than the young inexperienced lads. The rate of accident is usually higher with the young lad but it's more a case of spraining a wrist, knocking an ornament over, breaking a bit of equipment or damaging a fence etc.

 

I don't think anyone on here has to worry about being the old cocky guy though. If you're doing arb related stuff after work, you're not the complacent bloke. I think seeing and talking about stuff on here is similar to the read and signs in the aircraft industry, keeps everyone aware of new rules and on their toes. 

Yea . Ok .

[Paddy1000111]

I feel like you have taken this like I am calling you the old cocky bloke? Didn't mean to offend anyone ?

[Stubby]

8 minutes ago, Paddy1000111 said:

My point with that was that it comes down more to personality than anything else. You could have a young lad with a square head who goes slow and safe. You might have a young lad who is cocky, but the cocky lad doesn't tend to last long in any industry or at least has a very poor reputation.

Same with the older guys, you might have a guy who is switched on and cares about what he's doing but at the same time you might have the older guy who is cocky with age/knowledge and knows best. 

 

All I know is that I have personally seen more major incidents (high value damage/risk of life) from the cocky old guys who know best than the young inexperienced lads. The rate of accident is usually higher with the young lad but it's more a case of spraining a wrist, knocking an ornament over, breaking a bit of equipment or damaging a fence etc.

 

I don't think anyone on here has to worry about being the old cocky guy though. If you're doing arb related stuff after work, you're not the complacent bloke. I think seeing and talking about stuff on here is similar to the read and signs in the aircraft industry, keeps everyone aware of new rules and on their toes. 

My point was you write the complete works of Shakespeare followed by War and Peace only to finish with it can be the other way round  .

[Mick Dempsey]

Bang on Stubs.

[Paddy1000111]

Sorry, I thought I would save the time of me making a very unidirectional statement and everyone saying "But it can be the other way around, the young over-eager guy could do the same"... 

 

[Stubby]

1 minute ago, Paddy1000111 said:

Sorry, I thought I would save the time of me making a very unidirectional statement and everyone saying "But it can be the other way around, the young over-eager guy could do the same"... 

 

Put down the shovel and step away from the hole bud ?

[Paddy1000111]

I give up. Never came here to upset anyone...