harvesting arrangements

[Tregroes]

I hope this is the correct forum for this topic, if not will an admin move it?

 

I have 5 hectares of woodland to be harvested and a contractor interested in taking it on, but being like unto a toddler on the motorway in this regard I'd like to ask some really basic questions, mostly of a legal nature.

 

Firstly, regarding ownership of the timber, when it is sold and ownership transferred, between whom is the transaction made: does the contractor buy it from the owner and then find the best price for him-or herself, or does the sawmill buy it from the owner with the contractor acting as intermediary?

 

When the contractor undertakes to obtain the necessary licence and do all the paperwork, I take it the licence is actually granted to the owner, and the owner remains the responsible person? Does the contractor normally supply a copy of the licence to the owner? Does the contractor normally share with the owner the information used for the licence application, such as estimate of tonnage, and, later, price per ton at sale?

 

Do owner and contractor normally enter into a legally binding contract regarding the harvesting? If so, a) what sort of issues are covered in such a contract {ie, itemisation and pricing of the work to be undertaken, rates and timing of payment, insurance requirements etc} and, b) are there some standard off-the-shelf contracts available for this?

 

What's the normal procedure for dealing with the material left after harvesting (brash?)?

 

More questions will no doubt occur to me, and if there is somewhere a FAQ covering all this can someone let me know?

 

Thanks

[ESS]

25 minutes ago, Tregroes said:

I hope this is the correct forum for this topic, if not will an admin move it?

 

I have 5 hectares of woodland to be harvested and a contractor interested in taking it on, but being like unto a toddler on the motorway in this regard I'd like to ask some really basic questions, mostly of a legal nature.

 

Firstly, regarding ownership of the timber, when it is sold and ownership transferred, between whom is the transaction made: does the contractor buy it from the owner and then find the best price for him-or herself, or does the sawmill buy it from the owner with the contractor acting as intermediary?

 

When the contractor undertakes to obtain the necessary licence and do all the paperwork, I take it the licence is actually granted to the owner, and the owner remains the responsible person? Does the contractor normally supply a copy of the licence to the owner? Does the contractor normally share with the owner the information used for the licence application, such as estimate of tonnage, and, later, price per ton at sale?

 

Do owner and contractor normally enter into a legally binding contract regarding the harvesting? If so, a) what sort of issues are covered in such a contract {ie, itemisation and pricing of the work to be undertaken, rates and timing of payment, insurance requirements etc} and, b) are there some standard off-the-shelf contracts available for this?

 

What's the normal procedure for dealing with the material left after harvesting (brash?)?

 

More questions will no doubt occur to me, and if there is somewhere a FAQ covering all this can someone let me know?

 

Thanks

Is this a softwood parcel ?

[drinksloe]

There will be better informed folk than me on here dealing with the business/legal sides.

I'm just a grunt on a saw.

 

But I imagine there will be a lot of different answers and will be loads of variations between contractors and wether u are selling the crop as standing timber or wether ur paying the contractor to come in only to harvest and extract to roadside.

 

If u were worried for a 1st time ucould always get a land agent involved to smooth the bumps for the 1st time till u get ur head round it, but again they will need paying but possibly a good 1 would get u higher value for the timber so covering his cut

 

Wot u do with the brash might be site and species dependant ( very little of Norway or larch more of Sitka) if a dry site u will have loads of options to remove, esp now with the value for chipping/biomass.

But on a wet site u might end up with hardly any brash as it will all go below the tracks and will just be mulch.

Also depend if ur mounding the site for replanting, a good operator will bury brash in the dolp ditch and site can be quite tidy.

Other times not so much

[Tregroes]

3 hours ago, ESS said:

Is this a softwood parcel ?

Yes. Western red cedar and spruce, not sure of proportions.

[openspaceman]

11 hours ago, Tregroes said:

Firstly, regarding ownership of the timber, when it is sold and ownership transferred, between whom is the transaction made: does the contractor buy it from the owner and then find the best price for him-or herself, or does the sawmill buy it from the owner with the contractor acting as intermediary?

This is down to your agreement and contractual arrangement. Be very wary of gentlemans' agreements.

11 hours ago, Tregroes said:

 

When the contractor undertakes to obtain the necessary licence and do all the paperwork, I take it the licence is actually granted to the owner, and the owner remains the responsible person? Does the contractor normally supply a copy of the licence to the owner? Does the contractor normally share with the owner the information used for the licence application, such as estimate of tonnage, and, later, price per ton at sale?

The licence goes with the land, the owner can appoint the contractor as his agent to liaise with the FC with a document available on the FC website. The owner should have a copy of the licence. It is often beneficial to enter into a grant scheme rather than just a felling licence.

11 hours ago, Tregroes said:

 

Do owner and contractor normally enter into a legally binding contract regarding the harvesting? If so, a) what sort of issues are covered in such a contract {ie, itemisation and pricing of the work to be undertaken, rates and timing of payment, insurance requirements etc} and, b) are there some standard off-the-shelf contracts available for this?

Very much so, this should cover price, timing, extraction routes, stacking areas and how the land will be reinstated.

 

Also simple things about size of material that can be left. One university near me sold standing on an outturn basis to the highest bidder who subsequently felled the parcel, took out all the sawlogs to 8" top and paid for them leaving everything else on site which tangled mess cost more to clear up and burn than they received for the parcel. I would have harvested sawlogs, bars and chipwood leaving only material under 2" as lop and top,

11 hours ago, Tregroes said:

 

What's the normal procedure for dealing with the material left after harvesting (brash?)?

If it is small diameter it is just left to rot, sorry must rush

11 hours ago, Tregroes said:

 

 

[scottenduro]

https://www.ukfisa.com/assets/files/safetyLibrary/MHSF-2014.pdf

Defines some roles, albeit safety focused it may help you understand forestry works

[Tregroes]

On 19/06/2020 at 07:23, openspaceman said:

This is down to your agreement and contractual arrangement. Be very wary of gentlemans' agreements.

The licence goes with the land, the owner can appoint the contractor as his agent to liaise with the FC with a document available on the FC website. The owner should have a copy of the licence. It is often beneficial to enter into a grant scheme rather than just a felling licence.

Very much so, this should cover price, timing, extraction routes, stacking areas and how the land will be reinstated.

 

Also simple things about size of material that can be left. One university near me sold standing on an outturn basis to the highest bidder who subsequently felled the parcel, took out all the sawlogs to 8" top and paid for them leaving everything else on site which tangled mess cost more to clear up and burn than they received for the parcel. I would have harvested sawlogs, bars and chipwood leaving only material under 2" as lop and top,

If it is small diameter it is just left to rot, sorry must rush

 

Please excuse the delay in replying. It is much as I thought it should be from your reply, but could you please tell me more about grant schemes, or point me to where I can find out more?

[Tregroes]

On 19/06/2020 at 09:34, scottenduro said:

https://www.ukfisa.com/assets/files/safetyLibrary/MHSF-2014.pdf

Defines some roles, albeit safety focused it may help you understand forestry works

Useful. Thanks.

[openspaceman]

5 hours ago, Tregroes said:

Please excuse the delay in replying. It is much as I thought it should be from your reply, but could you please tell me more about grant schemes, or point me to where I can find out more?

I should have said "management plan" rather than grant scheme as I don't know what grants are available, my last involvement was  compliance inspections for grants over 20 years ago.

 

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