Maybe the UK should plant more....

[Sutton]

11 hours ago, Stere said:

Where did you buy all the euc from tempted to try a few dozen.

 

We got ours from Portugal in the mid 00s. Tried a dozen then filled a hectre with c2000 @ 2mtr spacing on acidic sandy soil. They grew 1-1.5 mtr a year. Maybe even 2mtr. OK with frost but snow/frost split the bark and rot set in quick on the edgers. Higher calorific value than willow on a par with softwoods. We were pleased to have done it. This was pre-funding so they weren't planted in woodland. Had to return the land back back to agricultural for the owners after the lease was up

[Phloem]

On 04/06/2020 at 19:39, Big J said:

Na na na na na na na na nitens!

 

That's what we're mostly planting (euc. nitens). Along with a few other euc species in much smaller quantities, we'll have planted about 60k of them this spring.

 

They grow faster than anything else that grows in the UK, produces decent quality timber for chip, firewood and sawmilling and looks nice too. 

 

Should be able to get 200k planted next year, or at least that's the plan.

Interesting.. How many per hectare? What silvicultural system? 

[Phloem]

6 hours ago, Gary Prentice said:

Going to rattle your chain with this 

 

There is a long established belief that we should stick to natives. Why is that? 

In a nutshell - wildlife and "sense of place". The species native to this country are the species which support birds, insects & various mammals because they have coexisted on this island for thousands of years (and in neighbouring Europe), and all these organisms have evolved together to coexist and benefit each other.

 

A Sitka plantation does provide some habitat for a few creatures, but it's many orders of magnitude less than an oak woodland for example.

 

When I started studying forestry I wondered why we have such boring tree species everywhere and why should we bother with natives, like why not put a shitload of giant sequoias and coastal redwoods everywhere instead of beech, oak, ash, etc. But as times gone by I actually think the native trees we find here, especially when they're allowed to grow old and magnificent, they are what make this small island so pleasant. There's something about them which just fits in perfectly, and because we've ****************ed up most of our ancient woodland, barely any of us can appreciate how amazing the trees which naturally grow here really are.

[Phloem]

4 minutes ago, Big J said:

We have 30 hectares going in this year on two sites. Approximately 61 hectares on 6 sites next year. 

 

We're being fairly selective on sites, so generally low level, flat or nearly flat sites with euc species chosen according to the site conditions. Mostly nitens though.

Pretty interesting, sorry if I missed it in previous comments but what's it to be grown for? Fuel?

 

I briefly remember reading about a guy with an estate down in England who pretty much pioneered the planting of eucalyptus and it showed you round some of the plantations. It was in forestry journal, don't suppose that was the guy you're doing work for?

[Mr. Ed]

My (Australian) wife reckons eucalypts are Australia’s revenge for the rabbit.  I don’t think Portugal thinks much of them any more ...

[Mr. Ed]

31 minutes ago, Big J said:

Portugal doesn't have our biomass requirements. 

 

We import 80% of our timber, including biomass. KRE in Kent is extensively fueled by euc chip from New Zealand. We just need to grow more of our own. 

 

It's not to say that we don't need farmland, but a lot of farmland is managed to maximise grant funding, rather than production. I don't agree with that. 

 

They are just impressive, and it's quite nice to think that starting out in forestry, you could conceivably see 3 rotations of 120ft trees in your working life.

As an outsider in (or at best an incomer to) this world, I'm beginning to realise that the biodiversity and environmental arguments for and against, say, a eucalyptus plantation, should be considered in the context of alternative land uses, which in the situation you're positing is grain or grass - neither of which are notably diverse when done commercially.

 

Gosh, that was clumsily put - forgive me. I'm the Henry James (famous for tortured syntax and yard long sentences) of the tree world.

[Sutton]

20 minutes ago, Big J said:

... that supply our growing timber needs.

The nitens we put in had 1+cm annual growth rings. Scottish/Scandinavian timber is closer ringed so stronger.

So, from our tiny experience, nitens might not be structurally dependable.

Nitens, as a crop, will have other timber product applications as well as fuel despite this.

Something worth considering with the amenity/heritage PoV, UK climate has obviously changed growing conditions.

If the extended dry summers and warm/wet winters continue, then nitens will be one to watch

[Stere]

Is much willow for biomass still being planted or gone out of fashion now?

 

 

[Mr. Ed]

As to being a climate change tree, one of the reasons eucalypts are abhorred in some places is because they're so good at getting all the moisture available for themselves - the water-table falls and starves other plants of water.

[Sutton]

1 hour ago, Mr. Ed said:

As to being a climate change tree, one of the reasons eucalypts are abhorred in some places is because they're so good at getting all the moisture available for themselves - the water-table falls and starves other plants of water.

Seen your woodland pics from TVi's thread and appreciate your questioning eucalypts. ?

We could add the fear of wild fires like in 1976 or the recent bush fires in Oz given the combustible nature of their oil, leaf and bark litter (yes, they are messy), and that startling exotic foliage (they are quite something to see in a storm in "full sail").

I can't speak for Eire, but the UK has many competing interests objecting to the varied options for renewable power generation e.g. The Seven Estuary tidal project has been shelved.

As you know, forestry has to project years ahead to best reckon what the markets will need because trees are relatively slow growing. So, for fuel that means accounting for why Germany recently opened a coal-fired power station, the panic over peak oil, sourcing uranium from politically unstable countries (China in the Africa), etc. The list goes on. Ultimately, its about spreading risk and if landowners in Devon can put their subsidies on hold for it (if they do or if indeed subsidies still exist after this C-19 crisis) then, I for one will be reassured that someone is thinking ahead positively.

 

As BigJ said, horses for courses. Eucalypts are a crop. Better than the swathes of solar cells popping up in farmer's fields all over the place. IMO. Yes, our ancient woodlands have heritage status for good reason. But wood has utility too and exotics might have their place (just a different place that's all)

Start your own thread about your woodland, Arbtalk has a lot of knowledgeable people and who doesn't like to see pictures of trees?