Maybe the UK should plant more....

[Gary Prentice]

On 03/06/2020 at 08:43, Khriss said:

@Squaredy   far too many non natives in this country as it is. As a UK plan you also have to take into account flooding events - where trees can assist. K

Going to rattle your chain with this 

 

There is a long established belief that we should stick to natives. Why is that? 

 

I'm not disputing that at one time there were reasons for this but looking forward I question whether this still holds true. With globalisation we live in an altogether different world and sticking to the old doctrines doesn't make much sense. 

 

Rather than adhering to the small palate of native trees shouldn't we be looking to what will grow well here? The only way to future proof against climate change and pathogens is to increase the diversity of our planting. 

 

I suspect that a barrier to change is a belief that evolution is a linear process, failing to recognise that nature is evolving at a faster clip than at any other time in history. We disparage trees like sycamore (introduced, not native) in the mistaken belief that they don't provide much in the way of ecological habitat for birds and beasties, while in truth they are only surpassed by oaks and one other native species (which I can't remember off hand)

 

I admit that a small percentage of our native fauna has very specific niche habitat requirements but the remainder are pretty adaptable, taking advantage of whatever trees are providing in the way of shelter, pollen, fruit/seeds/nuts etc. 

 

 

[Khriss]

28 minutes ago, Gary Prentice said:

Going to rattle your chain with this 

 

There is a long established belief that we should stick to natives. Why is that? 

 

I'm not disputing that at one time there were reasons for this but looking forward I question whether this still holds true. With globalisation we live in an altogether different world and sticking to the old doctrines doesn't make much sense. 

 

Rather than adhering to the small palate of native trees shouldn't we be looking to what will grow well here? The only way to future proof against climate change and pathogens is to increase the diversity of our planting. 

 

I suspect that a barrier to change is a belief that evolution is a linear process, failing to recognise that nature is evolving at a faster clip than at any other time in history. We disparage trees like sycamore (introduced, not native) in the mistaken belief that they don't provide much in the way of ecological habitat for birds and beasties, while in truth they are only surpassed by oaks and one other native species (which I can't remember off hand)

 

I admit that a small percentage of our native fauna has very specific niche habitat requirements but the remainder are pretty adaptable, taking advantage of whatever trees are providing in the way of shelter, pollen, fruit/seeds/nuts etc. 

 

 

Yr absolutely right an dont start taking me for some ' British Trees fr British Land'  nob end ?  but there is a large number of trees planted in poor locations and a poor choice, that focusing off Leylandii and L. Plane cant be bad. Planting traditionally found species is less fraught as exotic ornamentals have brought a lot of P & D to this land.  ( glad yr back / alive / still talking to me  ? )   K

[Gary Prentice]

6 minutes ago, Khriss said:

Planting traditionally found species is less fraught as exotic ornamentals have brought a lot of P & D to this land.  ( glad yr back / alive / still talking to me  ? )   K

Can't argue wih P&Ds on inported plants, although I believe that dunnage is actually one of the biggest culprits. (ALB - Paddock Wood).

 

Maybe if the government actually remember that we're an island, the nursery trade adopted the quarantine measures that Barchams apparently use and we employ a few more plant inspectors etc that risk could be reduced?

 

Thanks for the good wishes, I'm doing my best. 4th cycle next week and the paraprotein level continues downward.

[Khriss]

Sycamores are great fr Bats, but they have taken over in most of SE  and all that stupid N. Maple planted by Councils in 1970s was big  mistake. I would like to see  more Yew (  long lived and mechanically bomb proof)  Sorbus ( conservation value but short lived) Oaks obviously. Scots fr Red squirrel. F. Maple for shelter belts. K

[Big J]

9 hours ago, Stere said:

Where did you buy all the euc from tempted to try a few dozen.

 

Seems ireland is funding  euc planting....

 

https://www.agriculture.gov.ie/media/migration/forestry/grantandpremiumschemes/2015/AfforestationSchemeEd2190315.pdf

 

 

Bryan Elliot has supplied ours, and through him we're looking to establish a local supply too next year, with initially 60k nitens being grown about 10 miles as the crow flies from us. 

[Khriss]

..... In fact, you could almost take that as a Tree Planting Program for UK ( if that million tree planting ever happens)  i didnt include Cherry spp as, much as i love them they are high maintenance growth rate and root problems ( plant em only in parkland)  Beech are fab but very soil sensitive.  ...... Oh an rest of gaps, just fill in with Sitka spruce..... ?  K

 

 

 

( That last one was fr Big J ) 

[Sutton]

11 hours ago, Stere said:

Where did you buy all the euc from tempted to try a few dozen.

 

We got ours from Portugal in the mid 00s. Tried a dozen then filled a hectre with c2000 @ 2mtr spacing on acidic sandy soil. They grew 1-1.5 mtr a year. Maybe even 2mtr. OK with frost but snow/frost split the bark and rot set in quick on the edgers. Higher calorific value than willow on a par with softwoods. We were pleased to have done it. This was pre-funding so they weren't planted in woodland. Had to return the land back back to agricultural for the owners after the lease was up

[Phloem]

On 04/06/2020 at 19:39, Big J said:

Na na na na na na na na nitens!

 

That's what we're mostly planting (euc. nitens). Along with a few other euc species in much smaller quantities, we'll have planted about 60k of them this spring.

 

They grow faster than anything else that grows in the UK, produces decent quality timber for chip, firewood and sawmilling and looks nice too. 

 

Should be able to get 200k planted next year, or at least that's the plan.

Interesting.. How many per hectare? What silvicultural system? 

[Big J]

10 minutes ago, Phloem said:

Interesting.. How many per hectare? What silvicultural system? 

We have 30 hectares going in this year on two sites. Approximately 61 hectares on 6 sites next year. 

 

We're being fairly selective on sites, so generally low level, flat or nearly flat sites with euc species chosen according to the site conditions. Mostly nitens though.

[Phloem]

6 hours ago, Gary Prentice said:

Going to rattle your chain with this 

 

There is a long established belief that we should stick to natives. Why is that? 

In a nutshell - wildlife and "sense of place". The species native to this country are the species which support birds, insects & various mammals because they have coexisted on this island for thousands of years (and in neighbouring Europe), and all these organisms have evolved together to coexist and benefit each other.

 

A Sitka plantation does provide some habitat for a few creatures, but it's many orders of magnitude less than an oak woodland for example.

 

When I started studying forestry I wondered why we have such boring tree species everywhere and why should we bother with natives, like why not put a shitload of giant sequoias and coastal redwoods everywhere instead of beech, oak, ash, etc. But as times gone by I actually think the native trees we find here, especially when they're allowed to grow old and magnificent, they are what make this small island so pleasant. There's something about them which just fits in perfectly, and because we've ****************ed up most of our ancient woodland, barely any of us can appreciate how amazing the trees which naturally grow here really are.