An Idiot's guide to Ancient Woodland management

[pelerin]

47 minutes ago, eggsarascal said:

The man getting his hands dirty is getting the profit he wants. I would think TVI is smart enough to know what's best for his business and woodland.

Touché. 

So would I, but perhaps not the best tax advice. 

[Mr. Ed]

Of course TVI has the option of registering for VAT or not, if his sales are <£85,000 p.a.

 

[the village idiot]

On 15/01/2020 at 17:48, pelerin said:

First post on here. This is an excellent thread and TVI you are doing some great work on a big scale.

 

We’ve got a small piece of coppice, mainly alder with some big veteran oaks, that we were lucky enough to buy recently. Nothing on this scale though, and not designated ASNW, but there’s a lot to take away from this thread, and this forum as a whole. Thanks everyone. 

 

My paid work includes looking after land for landowners and I’m reasonably familiar with Countryside Stewardship grants, the foibles of owners, and most of the time their obsession with shooting over woodland management. TVI you are very lucky to have an owner who can see beyond the next 1st October. 

 

One thing I wanted to note was about tax. I think it is mentioned some way back in this thread, but timber sold in the round at roadside should not attract income tax. Something to think about when you are selling processed firewood wholesale perhaps? In effect you are instantly losing 20% (40% if you are selling enough of it...) as a cost of sale. This really should be considered when calculating the price you are selling it for by the bag. 

 

I have seen dumpy bags of seasoned firewood advertised delivered for £115. That’s £95.83+VAT. (People do pay this much!). It’s worth an hour on a spreadsheet to work out your hourly equivalent rate for all that processing, and include the tax you pay HMRC! (By 31 January)

 

P

 

 

Hi pelerin,

 

Welcome to the forum and thanks very much for your thoughts.

 

You make a very valid point. It is not necessarily a clear cut decision whether it is best to sell the resource as cordwood or split product. It will depend very much on each person's individual circumstances. In my case I am extremely fortunate to have a co-worker whose wage is covered by woodland grants and the woodland owner and does not come directly out of the product derived revenue. This is highly significant.

 

We roughly double the sale value of the wood we cut by processing it over the summer. The additional costs of doing the processing (labour, machinery, sundries, income tax) are more than covered by the increase in value. 

 

That being said, the profit is not large and a creative thinker might well find that they can be more profitable spending their time on another activity and selling the wood as cord. We enjoy doing the firewood and haven't yet found a summer activity that we would prefer to do instead.

 

I am not at all bothered what someone makes financially from the firewood once it has left us. If they are happy and we are viable then I am happy.

 

We don't really think of ourselves as a firewood business. We are woodland managers with firewood production being one of our activities.

 

Regarding VAT; my turnover is less than half the VAT threshold but I have registered voluntarily. My two main firewood buyers are both VAT registered so it is not an issue for them, and it is very beneficial to claim the VAT back on any purchases I make.

[Gary Prentice]

2 hours ago, the village idiot said:

We enjoy doing the firewood and haven't yet found a summer activity that we would prefer to do instead.

How about BBQs and drinking beer?

[the village idiot]

4 hours ago, Gary Prentice said:

How about BBQs and drinking beer?

Oh yes, silly me!?

[GilesO]

Just checking that you're just in hibernation somewhere deep in your wood (hopefully with a beer) and nothing else has nobbled you- I've been checking for an update of my favoured read on a daily basis and its all gone quiet!!! Wot happened next then??!!

[Khriss]

Mild weather must be keeping you busy ! K

[the village idiot]

13 hours ago, GilesO said:

Just checking that you're just in hibernation somewhere deep in your wood (hopefully with a beer) and nothing else has nobbled you- I've been checking for an update of my favoured read on a daily basis and its all gone quiet!!! Wot happened next then??!!

Sorry Giles, I've been neglecting my duties.?

 

Just been felling trees for the past little while so not too much to report. I also tend to post in splurges, I'm sure there'll be another one along soon.

 

2020 will be the year of ecological recording. We have got many different surveys planned to record birds, mammals, plants, insects and fungi. I'll be sure to post all the results up with plenty of detail about some of the more interesting finds.

 

Just as a little taster, here are some fungi fruiting bodies photos taken in the wood last autumn. See how many you can identify.

 

 

 

 

 

 

5 more to come once you've got all of these.

 

Edited January 31, 2020 by the village idiot

[GilesO]

Really not my strong point at all, very weak- I've worked on the theory that I can damage myself enough without poisoning myself too so I've regarded them as interesting and pretty and if I'm going to get involved with any fungi I'd be better off buying it. My loss in something so interesting and part of the natural world however - I stand to be lambasted by the experts but here we go- Fly Agaric, Yellow Staghorn, Orange Woodland, Honey Fungus and Amethyst Deceiver. I'd better go and buff up hadn't I??!!

Glad all well however, have a good day.

[the village idiot]

23 minutes ago, GilesO said:

Really not my strong point at all, very weak- I've worked on the theory that I can damage myself enough without poisoning myself too so I've regarded them as interesting and pretty and if I'm going to get involved with any fungi I'd be better off buying it. My loss in something so interesting and part of the natural world however - I stand to be lambasted by the experts but here we go- Fly Agaric, Yellow Staghorn, Orange Woodland, Honey Fungus and Amethyst Deceiver. I'd better go and buff up hadn't I??!!

Glad all well however, have a good day.

Good on you for having a go!

 

I'm rubbish on fungi and only know these because I've been told.

 

You got Amethyst deceiver (number 5) so you can feel very chuffed with yourself about that.