Competency and liability

[bumble B]

With regards to local authority trees what would be the minimum qualifications and experience required to assess tree safety in high risk areas? I am thinking from a liability aspect should the worst occur and what the outcome would be if an unsuitable person's decision were to cause serious injury to a third party.

[Jon Heuch]

On ‎04‎/‎01‎/‎2018 at 23:21, bumble B said:

With regards to local authority trees what would be the minimum qualifications and experience required to assess tree safety in high risk areas? I am thinking from a liability aspect should the worst occur and what the outcome would be if an unsuitable person's decision were to cause serious injury to a third party.

Depends on how "unsuitable" they were! Did they have "insurance" & was it the right type of insurance? Well the Cavanagh V Witley & Shepherd judgment is an interesting one......but it doesn't seem to be fully in the public domain yet and it's heading to appeal so I am led to believe. The tree surgeon who apparently is named as one of the parties doesn't exactly come out with a glowing reference from the judge "...deliberately untruthful..." were his words "aided and abetted by his wife...." Strangely this isn't given much attention on his website! However, he didn't have professional indemnity insurance so essentially got away with it, leaving the parish council as tree owner to "hold the can". I wonder whether he will doing much more tree inspection with or without insurance?

 

The outcome:

 

i) a seriously injured person

ii) months of uncertainty whilst the case was prepared.....management time diverted to all that preparation

iii) a very uncomfortable day or two at court with cross examination, egg on face

iv) a permanent record of their performance in court....as above.

v) their name indelibly quoted in arboricultural circles to show us what can go wrong

 

Qualifications & experience? It's a difficult one but the PTI course would be a minimum to do this type of work on any regular basis.

[janey]

Why are you asking @bumble B? Are you thinking of putting a claim in? 

 

As already said, the job description and essential requirements will dictate the qualifications and experience needed for the position. This will usually be a joint decision between management and insurance. The most asked for quals now are the LANTRA PTI and a role specific Level 3, although this is at the LAs discretion. 

 

Where someone's managed to stay in one position for more than a couple of years without getting bored or getting sacked, a level of CPD and an up to date training matrix is part of working for LA these days, as they are all very litigation conscious. 

[tree77]

the National Tree Safety groups publication ' Common Sense Risk Management of Trees' is useful, although only guidance.

 

[bumble B]

11 hours ago, Jon Heuch said:

Depends on how "unsuitable" they were! Did they have "insurance" & was it the right type of insurance? Well the Cavanagh V Witley & Shepherd judgment is an interesting one......but it doesn't seem to be fully in the public domain yet and it's heading to appeal so I am led to believe. The tree surgeon who apparently is named as one of the parties doesn't exactly come out with a glowing reference from the judge "...deliberately untruthful..." were his words "aided and abetted by his wife...." Strangely this isn't given much attention on his website! However, he didn't have professional indemnity insurance so essentially got away with it, leaving the parish council as tree owner to "hold the can". I wonder whether he will doing much more tree inspection with or without insurance?

 

The outcome:

 

i) a seriously injured person

ii) months of uncertainty whilst the case was prepared.....management time diverted to all that preparation

iii) a very uncomfortable day or two at court with cross examination, egg on face

iv) a permanent record of their performance in court....as above.

v) their name indelibly quoted in arboricultural circles to show us what can go wrong

 

Qualifications & experience? It's a difficult one but the PTI course would be a minimum to do this type of work on any regular basis.

That’s a good example. I will be interested to read more when available.

 

3 hours ago, janey said:

Why are you asking @bumble B? Are you thinking of putting a claim in? 

 

As already said, the job description and essential requirements will dictate the qualifications and experience needed for the position. This will usually be a joint decision between management and insurance. The most asked for quals now are the LANTRA PTI and a role specific Level 3, although this is at the LAs discretion. 

 

Where someone's managed to stay in one position for more than a couple of years without getting bored or getting sacked, a level of CPD and an up to date training matrix is part of working for LA these days, as they are all very litigation conscious. 

What’s this, no win no fee?

Just something being talked about re experience and qual’s. Not being able to fully identify a defect or appreciate it’s significance, or even see a potential defect in the field if you have only learnt from books in a classroom.

[janey]

5 hours ago, bumble B said:

 

Just something being talked about re experience and qual’s. Not being able to fully identify a defect or appreciate it’s significance, or even see a potential defect in the field if you have only learnt from books in a classroom.

That's a good point. I've now worked with two people with Foundation Degrees in Arb that have been kin useless. They've come straight into the job with zero experience and haven't been able to do what was required of them. One appreciated this and was eager to learn. Tother one was an arrogant twat who wouldn't listen to anyone and made twice as much work for the rest of the team. 

 

I've also worked/work with some incredibly good people who have had very few academic quals but have been exceptionally good at what they do as they've had many years of experience. However, in these days of arse covering, I do think that having the PTI and a L3 demonstrate that you have the technical ability to recognise and quantify defects, should there ever be a serious failure that results in injury or death. 

Edited February 7, 2018 by janey
Typo

[Khriss]

Definitely need a feel fr this job. Am similarly qualified on paper fr TO / Arb officer but its the niggling lil voice in yr head from years of looking at trees and going back and checking it out once more , K

[Khriss]

( I wouyld have been checking out  that Lime in the Churchyard every time I drove past )

[Gary Prentice]

A drive by?