AA Affilaite Contractor Member to ARB Approved Contractor

[Ian C]

Do you have the figure for firms who having been on the scheme chose to no longer remain on it?

 

I know of a few.

I know of 3 that have binned it in the last 12 months.

I also know of one firm who used someone else's work passed off as there own!

Paul as you know we have been to your workshop and v good it was, I have been v close to doing it but for me as a small firm I just can't see the benifits, I have most of the schemes needed for commercial work eg chas, safe contractor , construction line, trust mark and fair trades ect ect but in the last 10yrs have only been asked for arb approved once! The problem is the AAAC has no legal standing and little commercial worth, not a dig at you as I know you work v hard but also look at the Bartletts thing, there supposedly a leading expert who are AAAC but yet made such a massive cock up with the poplar job, what happened to them? Very little I would imagine!

 

The other thing with the AA is its still up its own arse, as a member you cannot use the logo and your not a "professional "unless you have a L3! I have a L2 plus other isa quals but am not classes as professional.

Edited May 29, 2017 by Ian C

[AA Teccie (Paul)]

I know of 3 that have binned it in the last 12 months.

I also know of one firm who used someone else's work passed off as there own!

Paul as you know we have been to your workshop and v good it was, I have been v close to doing it but for me as a small firm I just can't see the benifits, I have most of the schemes needed for commercial work eg chas, safe contractor , construction line ect ect but in the last 10yrs have only been asked for arb approved once! The problem is the AAAC has no legal standing and little commercial worth, not a dig at you as I know you work v hard but also look at the Bartletts thing, there supposedly a leading expert who are AAAC but yet made such a massive cock up with the poplar job, what happened to them? Very little I would imagine!

 

The other thing with the AA is its still up its own arse, as a member you cannot use the logo and your not a "professional "unless you have a L3! I have a L2 plus other isa quals but am not classes as professional.

 

 

Hi Ian, tis unlike you to be so forthright

 

Sorry, just gotta pop out but will reply fuller later.

 

Thanks for posting

Paul

[Ian C]

Hi Ian, tis unlike you to be so forthright [emoji3]

 

Sorry, just gotta pop out but will reply fuller later.

 

Thanks for posting [emoji106]1:

Paul

I am noted for my deplomacy !

 

Sent from my SM-N910F using Arbtalk mobile app

[AA Teccie (Paul)]

I know of 3 that have binned it in the last 12 months.

I also know of one firm who used someone else's work passed off as there own!

Paul as you know we have been to your workshop and v good it was, I have been v close to doing it but for me as a small firm I just can't see the benifits, I have most of the schemes needed for commercial work eg chas, safe contractor , construction line, trust mark and fair trades ect ect but in the last 10yrs have only been asked for arb approved once! The problem is the AAAC has no legal standing and little commercial worth, not a dig at you as I know you work v hard but also look at the Bartletts thing, there supposedly a leading expert who are AAAC but yet made such a massive cock up with the poplar job, what happened to them? Very little I would imagine!

 

The other thing with the AA is its still up its own arse, as a member you cannot use the logo and your not a "professional "unless you have a L3! I have a L2 plus other isa quals but am not classes as professional.

 

Reet, ere'goes.

 

Ian, respectfully, everyone knows someone, or 2 or 3, who've been ARB Approved and now aren't n the reasons are often the same...no-one asked for it. I live in S. Devon and about 12 years ago one of the big boy ArbACS won the Torbay Contract, which required ArbAC, and the smaller firms were understandably miffed. So, they, approx. 8, got ArbAC over the years and now local ArbACs have the Torbay Contract and several others including the Devon County Framework. Further others, even some home owners, ask for ArbAC because they've seen it around and know what it means. Hence "chicken n egg" scenario is why we need more contractors all over to become ArbAC.

 

Re-using someone else's work as their own. I'm not saying this can't happen, and obviously it has, but there are checks in place to avoid this happening. Bottom line if someone is hell-bent on cheating then some parts of the scheme are vulnerable but it usually transpires at some stage.

 

The being asked for CHAS / SAFEcontractor etc. is because buyers are familiar with it. Increasingly they're asking for SSiP of which ARbAC is a member AND a tree surgery specific member AND we're about so much more than just paperwork and a desktop audit. Exor & Constructionline are different requiring more than just H&S stuff but ArbAC fulfills this aspect. Trustmark, as a 'tree surgery' registered firm, is only available as ArbAC as we are the only tree surgery scheme operator.

 

The circumstances surrounding the Bartlett's case that you mention are under review, yep "door, close, horse, bolted" BUT at the time the scheme rules tied our hands because HSE were involved which would have been the case whoever the contractor was. This will change in the future as we will reserve the right to temporarily suspend an ArbAC, pending HSE investigation and outcome, albeit very much as the exception and where the scheme reputation is deemed to be at risk. The phrase "lesson learned" comes to mind.

 

As for the AA being "up its own...backside", I fully understand your frustrations as a member but the decision taken by the Board was to restrict logo use to the higher membership levels. Not all at the AA agreed but that is democracy.

 

Ian, I know you're a professional, and I know you care, and I thank you for commenting here...and I'm in Yorkshire in mid-July along with my pen and clipboard

 

Seriously "thank you" and I do acknowledge we've much work still to do to attract good contractors like you and many others onto the scheme

Paul

[skyhuck]

I think one of your problems is that the poor contractors probably benefit more from you than the good, IMO the good ones really don't need a scheme like yours.

 

I've seen a local AAAC at work, it was pretty shocking.

[Ian C]

Reet, ere'goes.

 

Ian, respectfully, everyone knows someone, or 2 or 3, who've been ARB Approved and now aren't n the reasons are often the same...no-one asked for it. I live in S. Devon and about 12 years ago one of the big boy ArbACS won the Torbay Contract, which required ArbAC, and the smaller firms were understandably miffed. So, they, approx. 8, got ArbAC over the years and now local ArbACs have the Torbay Contract and several others including the Devon County Framework. Further others, even some home owners, ask for ArbAC because they've seen it around and know what it means. Hence "chicken n egg" scenario is why we need more contractors all over to become ArbAC.

 

Re-using someone else's work as their own. I'm not saying this can't happen, and obviously it has, but there are checks in place to avoid this happening. Bottom line if someone is hell-bent on cheating then some parts of the scheme are vulnerable but it usually transpires at some stage.

 

The being asked for CHAS / SAFEcontractor etc. is because buyers are familiar with it. Increasingly they're asking for SSiP of which ARbAC is a member AND a tree surgery specific member AND we're about so much more than just paperwork and a desktop audit. Exor & Constructionline are different requiring more than just H&S stuff but ArbAC fulfills this aspect. Trustmark, as a 'tree surgery' registered firm, is only available as ArbAC as we are the only tree surgery scheme operator.

 

The circumstances surrounding the Bartlett's case that you mention are under review, yep "door, close, horse, bolted" BUT at the time the scheme rules tied our hands because HSE were involved which would have been the case whoever the contractor was. This will change in the future as we will reserve the right to temporarily suspend an ArbAC, pending HSE investigation and outcome, albeit very much as the exception and where the scheme reputation is deemed to be at risk. The phrase "lesson learned" comes to mind.

 

As for the AA being "up its own...backside", I fully understand your frustrations as a member but the decision taken by the Board was to restrict logo use to the higher membership levels. Not all at the AA agreed but that is democracy.

 

Ian, I know you're a professional, and I know you care, and I thank you for commenting here...and I'm in Yorkshire in mid-July along with my pen and clipboard [emoji3]

 

Seriously "thank you" and I do acknowledge we've much work still to do to attract good contractors like you and many others onto the scheme [emoji106]1:

Paul

Paul

 

Thanks for the reply and valid points, part of me wants to do it, you have met one of my lads Tom, Paul and Will you haven't but there a great crew and we would fly through your assessment, they see no point in it as we are always busy, I'm 50/50 with it, I like the idea but purely from a business point of view I don't see how it would secure more work, we already carry out fairly large commercial work and as for domestics most wouldn't know or give a monkeys!

 

We don't do any council work apart from parish council stuff,there's a few firms in Leeds competing for council stuff for pretty much peanuts with poor standard of work so that doesn't bother me. Don't know.......might convince myself one day.

 

When your up in Yorkshire give me a bell and we can have a natter and a brew.

 

Sent from my SM-N910F using Arbtalk mobile app

Edited May 29, 2017 by Ian C

[johnp]

Personally, as a small one man and subbies band I am realistically never going to have the office/paper work side of things any where near where it should be, however I'd like to think the standard of the jobs and customer satisfaction are up there with the best, what frustrates me is there are loads of firms doing excellent work but don't necessarily fulfill the office side of things, it would be nice to have a half way house that covered quality of work. I realise that it may be unrealistic but so is the aaac for me as it stands

[skyhuck]

Personally, as a small one man and subbies band I am realistically never going to have the office/paper work side of things any where near where it should be, however I'd like to think the standard of the jobs and customer satisfaction are up there with the best, what frustrates me is there are loads of firms doing excellent work but don't necessarily fulfill the office side of things, it would be nice to have a half way house that covered quality of work. I realise that it may be unrealistic but so is the aaac for me as it stands

 

Nail on the head!!!

[AA Teccie (Paul)]

I think one of your problems is that the poor contractors probably benefit more from you than the good, IMO the good ones really don't need a scheme like yours.

 

I've seen a local AAAC at work, it was pretty shocking.

 

An interesting perspective on things. I do acknowledge that poor contractors do have something more to gain in terms of becoming better / good contractors via the scheme but I think you're probably referring to a different take on things. The reality is that in parts of the country where there aren't any ARbACs, or there are very few, we're keen to give applicant contractors every opportunity and time to improve to the final standards required by the scheme. Obviously if this isn't achieved by the time of the reassessment, i.e. 2 years on, we will review.

 

We do market the scheme as an opportunity to "stand out from the (tree surgery) crowd", i.e. aimed at appealing to the good contractors to give the recognition they deserve but in saying this I do acknowledge some, well established and well respected contractors, probably have less to gain.

 

I've pm'd you on the final matter.

 

Thanks,

Paul

 

PS What time do you 'log off'?

[Wolfie]

I know of 3 that have binned it in the last 12 months.

I also know of one firm who used someone else's work passed off as there own!

 

The other thing with the AA is its still up its own arse, as a member you cannot use the logo and your not a "professional "unless you have a L3! I have a L2 plus other isa quals but am not classes as professional.

 

 

I am still aiming to go AAAC within the next year or two but I do agree with some of you points.

 

I believe that there are at least two approved contractors in my area who have to bring in subbies for their assessed reductions. One in particular, his own reduction work is truly shocking.

 

I also only have L2 + PTI and now that Tech cert has been dropped my only option now seem to be L4dip which I signed up for 2 years ago and very quickly realised that it was no good for me.

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Arbtalk