Anyone happen to be travelling from France to the UK?

[Rob D]

Also have a look at Shipley Alec.

 

 

Shiply / Shipley - Courier Services & UK Delivery Service Companies

[Pinkfoot]

If none of that works , get them to ship some grafting wood over and I will make you some.

[agg221]

Hi Rob, I don't like Shiply very much - they take their 'booking fee' upfront but won't return it if the courier then drops out. Having lost money that way before I would rather not do so again if I can help it.

 

Pinkfoot - thank you for the offer. I normally graft my own but these are on Bittenfelder stock, then a stem builder before being top-worked, which is, quite frankly, too much hassle for me to undertake for a few trees. Are you able to produce top-worked standards? If so, I'd be very interested to know details regardless of what happens with the French trees.

 

Alec

[Pinkfoot]

I graft two year old apple trees to make family trees , and lots of bench grafting , so yes I can graft at any hight, if I can get there!

What do you call a standard?

When I first started ,a standard had a five foot leg , and then the head..

I presume you mean at 3.5' or something?

[agg221]

I graft two year old apple trees to make family trees , and lots of bench grafting , so yes I can graft at any hight, if I can get there!

What do you call a standard?

When I first started ,a standard had a five foot leg , and then the head..

I presume you mean at 3.5' or something?

 

I would regard 3'6" as the higher end of bush, 4'6" as half-standard and 6' as a full standard. The French still plant traditional cider orchards, under-grazed by cows (I will be leaving the cow bit out!) so these are grafted at 6' or just over. Most varieties are too weak to run the stem up this far and Bittenfelder stock doesn't have great structure for the stem, hence the use of a stem builder. President Descours is the French choice but Bulmer's Norman is used for the same purpose in the UK. Bulmers does produce a small number of trees of this type for sale each year but in a really limited range which doesn't quite line up with what I want to do.

 

There is a small patch of land adjoining us which we are buying (should complete today!) and it is an ideal site for a few full sized standards. These will provide a visual feature and the varieties I want are designed to produce vintage quality cider or blend well to add flavour to surplus cookers. The land has been a paddock in the past and still has stables on, so could be used for this again. High standards will be enable this, and will also avoid the problems we often have around here with deer.

 

Alec

[Pinkfoot]

So would you top work pre planting , or grow the stock , graft the inter scion and let it grow tall enough before grafting?

Or buy the stems in?

[agg221]

So would you top work pre planting , or grow the stock , graft the inter scion and let it grow tall enough before grafting?

Or buy the stems in?

 

Bittenfelder is slightly odd in that the vigour is a genetically transferrable trait and comes true from seed (the fruit doesn't but this is obviously not an issue for rootstocks). You sow the seed and then either bench graft the stem-building scion at the end of the first year when lining the stocks out or bud the following summer with grafting to fill in the failures. These are then run up to full height, typically a year but maybe two, and then grafted at the desired height the following year. Altogether it is typically a 4yr cycle from sowing the rootstock seed to final planting out - quite intensive.

 

Alec

[Pinkfoot]

Is there any reason why you could not use mm106 , bud or graft a very fast growing variety of culinary apple or crab , such as Butterball , and use that to top work?

Or do you need specific traits?

[agg221]

Is there any reason why you could not use mm106 , bud or graft a very fast growing variety of culinary apple or crab , such as Butterball , and use that to top work?

Or do you need specific traits?

 

MM106 wouldn't be big enough - M25 would be the best UK alternative. Bittenfelder is generally reckoned to be more tolerant of poorer soils including wet soils (such as I have), making it ideal for growing in a fully grassed orchard. If I ended up unable to source Bittenfelder I would go for M25 which should be OK.

 

You could then use a vigorous culinary variety as the stem builder but you would want to select something which was very highly canker resistant.

 

Alec

[Pinkfoot]

Well , best of luck with it.

I am here if you need anything from me.