Long over due

[Gary Prentice]

:thumbup1:

[Gary Prentice]

 

As a foot note, I'm running solar PV, solar thermal & biomass so, yes I am drawing down some of those funds but all my generation capacity goes into a reduced CO2 footprint and is designed to suit my domestic 'need' rather than being designed to maximise funding.

 

PS, that's just my view on it, others may differ!

 

Would these 'funds' amount to thirty quid a week?

 

Come on Kevin, admit it. I don't think you actually do any tree work:001_tongue:

 

The expression ' couldn't run a ..... in a brewery' comes to mind, when you start to look at the instigators, organising and running these schemes.

[skyhuck]

Were these schemes not set up to achieve EU targets, that if not met would result in huge fines?

 

If I'm correct does anyone know the size of the fines and wether the payments are greater or less than the potential fines?

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

Yes .

 

Yes..... And No!

 

No - If you’re using heat solely for personal domestic use, the payments you receive aren’t chargeable to Income Tax.

 

Yes - If you’re a business or a trader any RHI payments you receive are a business receipt and the normal Income tax and Corporation tax rules for receipts and deductions apply.

 

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/taxation-of-renewable-heat-incentives

 

Would these 'funds' amount to thirty quid a week?

 

Not taxable income Gazzer!

 

Come on Kevin, admit it. I don't think you actually do any tree work:001_tongue:

 

There are certain limitations.... wind, rain, cold, apathy, lethargy, distraction, surfing.... But on the other 2 days a month it can get really hectic!

 

The expression ' couldn't run a ..... in a brewery' comes to mind, when you start to look at the instigators, organising and running these schemes.

 

I meant to include something similar in the previous post - woodpeckers picnic in Epping Forest I was going to say!

 

Were these schemes not set up to achieve EU targets, that if not met would result in huge fines?

 

If I'm correct does anyone know the size of the fines and wether the payments are greater or less than the potential fines?

 

I think that is one of the original drivers.

 

Not sure, can't seem to get the figures with any reliability, to compare original allocations as measured against potential fines for not meeting CO2 reduction targets.

 

In my opinion, it's one of the reasons such a blaze approach to expenditure was initially adopted - might as well spend it otherwise we'll have to give it to the EU in fines (whilst I don't like such frivolity, I'd rather it was set on fire (oddly, you could say it is being) than given to the EU.)

 

One thing I was watching quite keenly a while back was the financial implication of holding back the roll out of the DRHI from the original date.

 

Classic government RAB accounting - the money had been allocated in year for DRHI but the 'system' to deliver the payment premiums to users was being delayed resulting in un-spendable money in a departmental budget.

 

The money had been allocated and couldn't be spent as intended, it couldn't be transferred between cost centres (OGD) so it led to a big push and additional grant support to neighbourhood systems eligible for CRHI - and there are plenty of examples of that being driven by income generation rather than CO2 reduction.

 

I guess the fundamental problem is human nature - what ever 'system' is put in place, someone will find a way to twist it away from the original, well intentioned concept towards personal gain. The laws of unintended consequences.

[Gary Prentice]

 

I guess the fundamental problem is human nature - what ever 'system' is put in place, someone will find a way to twist it away from the original, well intentioned concept towards personal gain. The laws of unintended consequences.

 

Someone? A bit of an understatement:lol: It's hardly a bit of petty cash involved or off the books work. The examples in NI appear, to my un-educated eye, to be blatant fraud.

 

 

Edit: Connie bashing or surfing..... tough choices.

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

Someone? A bit of an understatement:lol: It's hardly a bit of petty cash involved or off the books work. The examples in NI appear, to my un-educated eye, to be blatant fraud.

 

 

Edit: Connie bashing or surfing..... tough choices.

 

Fraud.... I wouldn't bet the mortgage on any convictions.... There may be some, but I wouldn't be confident. Worst case is likely to be some embarrassing questions and awkward silences.

 

The regs didn't say you couldn't have a massively oversized boiler pumping heat out through the open windows of empty barns.

 

It's just that the rules weren't written by someone that stood to be spending their own money!

[County 764]

Were these schemes not set up to achieve EU targets, that if not met would result in huge fines?

 

If I'm correct does anyone know the size of the fines and wether the payments are greater or less than the potential fines?

 

That probably has a lot to do with it.

 

Still strange how someone could have 5 boilers in a row so they are always claiming the maximum tariff.

[gdh]

I think the scheme worked, it's got a lot of old oil boilers replaced in houses and it's persuaded businesses to switch to wood. It came around at just the right time for us, we didn't have any more space to dry wood and the weather's too bad around here to get wood dry enough for what customers demand now so using rhi meant we could dry without having to raise prices.

 

Having said that, there are certainly people taking advantage which isn't helped by boiler salesmen saying you can pay them off in 5 years if you open all your doors and windows. With a big boiler most domestic and smaller users won't hit the maximum payment without letting some heat go to waste...

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

I think the scheme worked, it's got a lot of old oil boilers replaced in houses and it's persuaded businesses to switch to wood. It came around at just the right time for us, we didn't have any more space to dry wood and the weather's too bad around here to get wood dry enough for what customers demand now so using rhi meant we could dry without having to raise prices.

 

Having said that, there are certainly people taking advantage which isn't helped by boiler salesmen saying you can pay them off in 5 years if you open all your doors and windows. With a big boiler most domestic and smaller users won't hit the maximum payment without letting some heat go to waste...

 

It might be that your use of 'domestic' could be misleading in that sentence.

 

Domestic RHI (single property) payment rates are calculated from the EPC / Green Deal assessment of the requirement for that property. Opening a window / generating more heat or hot water than is required (and then venting to atmosphere) would make no difference to the DRHI payment - it would just cost the homeowner more in fuel usage - a pointless exercise.

 

I'm guessing, you might be referring to a CRHI 'neighbourhood' heating scheme where metered heat generation is piped to separate properties? If that is the case, then I'd agree your point and suggest that is a significant part of the 'problem' with the construct of the CRHI - the incentive is to generate heat in order to gain payment - a problem that was ironed out before rolling out the DRHI.

[gdh]

It might be that your use of 'domestic' could be misleading in that sentence.

 

Domestic RHI (single property) payment rates are calculated from the EPC / Green Deal assessment of the requirement for that property. Opening a window / generating more heat or hot water than is required (and then venting to atmosphere) would make no difference to the DRHI payment - it would just cost the homeowner more in fuel usage - a pointless exercise.

 

I'm guessing, you might be referring to a CRHI 'neighbourhood' heating scheme where metered heat generation is piped to separate properties? If that is the case, then I'd agree your point and suggest that is a significant part of the 'problem' with the construct of the CRHI - the incentive is to generate heat in order to gain payment - a problem that was ironed out before rolling out the DRHI.

 

Yes, sorry I meant domestic as in used for houses but still on the 20 year commercial scheme.