5thelement

Back in Blighty to see the old folks, first rain I’ve seen in six weeks, I don’t miss that at all but a well kept barrel of Harvey’s Best Bitter and a pub lunch is hard to beat.

I am really struggling to imagine a worse evening, fantastic 👍

When we used to do them regularly we where operating as a team consisting of 4 full time climbers, 2 climbers/groundies and 2 non climbing brash draggers. The company did a mix of around 70% domestic, 20% street trees and council land, and 10% on large commercial sites like universities. We wouldn't conduct them on domestic jobs where the customer may think they where paying for us to practice this, street trees where early start, job and knock and get out of dodge, so the university campus work, which was usually conducted outside of term time and quiet, is where we would do them. Usually a group of trees requiring all staff present, we would choose a tree to finish on, break the back of the job, then ease up on the last day, do the rescues and use up the short dated First Aid kit. Minimal cost if any, but may not be possible for everyone.

Although competition climbing and work climbing differ, the aerial rescue practice scenarios in the competitions could be used as a template for recording your own work based practice data. The AA quite often sponsor these climbing events so I can’t see why the scenarios couldn’t be replicated and recorded in the same manner. Not just time in minutes, but a point score system for implementing the emergency plan, first aid in the tree, once on the ground etc etc. I can’t see how a list of information recorded this way could not be deemed “comprehensive”.

People respond differently under pressure though, I worked with a climber that would feel faint and hit the floor like a lead balloon at the first sight of blood.

Probably just a case of experience and time in the saddle really, although you could get a calm and collected groundy doing a better response than a second climber in a bit of a flap.

There is nothing worse than a performer who really lets you down. A mate went to watch Neil Young after he had been off the scene for a good while and had come back touring a new album. He played the whole new album, then re-entered the stage to do the encore and told the audience “he was going to play them something they had heard before”, he then played the new album again! Peter Gabriel or PGAB as they like to call him, is massive here in France.

I’m talking about the subject of the thread, and how people are doing it. You mentioned how you used to do it a a group of several small outfits, simply asking if you have continued in this vein or are doing things differently now? Its the most straightforward, virtually cost free, easily manageable and enjoyable option put forward so far.

Are you still doing this then?

So the Emergency Tree Work Operations assessment required trees 18” up to 30” with an assisted fell no more than 15”. I can’t think of any reason why this wouldn’t be acceptable to cover you for Individual Windblown. My only concern, and this is why I recommend you contact NPTC/ City and Guilds, is that the Emergency Tree Work Operations no longer exists and the Individual Windblown certificate is relatively new after being completely rewritten, there may be some areas where the criteria don’t overlap (but I don’t think there is). I would just get them to confirm and clarify this in writing before proceeding.

I would email City and Guilds for clarification on this as the Emergency Treework Operations (CS50) has been removed from the suite of qualifications. I would think it would cover you for the Individual Windblown (the pre requisite for this is now CMCC) as long as the trees are under 380mm (15”). Can’t remember if the old (CS50) covered Assisted Fell but all the trees would have been under guidebar on the CS50 assessment, what’s the diameter of the trees you are going to be felling?

Madness played the show at the opening of the restored Hastings Pier a few years back. Turns out Suggs is from Hastings, he screwed down the last plank, pointed from the stage at the house on the hill he grew up in, then they blew the place apart, a great live act.

Must have been someone else in the thread, certainly can’t be arsed to look through to find out.

I was heading over, got to within about 10 yards of you…then thought better of it.

I’ve never been an NPTC Assessor for any Aerial certification. You must have got the impression by now that most people involved on here couldn’t give a monkeys what TG1 says? They certainly aren’t going to open up when the OP won’t even be straight up wether he is even towing the line, why should they? I had a chat to a few guys Ive known in the Industry for years in the UK earlier, I asked them about it, they laughed their cocks off. So it’s pretty simple to be compliant, it’s up to you really.

I’m pretty sure I saw a spectacularly drunk you at a Kaiser Chiefs gig at Bedgebury a few years back?

Although I dislike the modern way of watching gigs through the screen on your phone, rather than the gig itself, I do wish I had taken more photos of a lot of bands I’ve seen over the years. The Sugarcubes in Iceland circa 1988 where fantastic, fresh faced pixie Bjork at her finest sonically. Living in Manchester I got to see a lot of bands on my doorstep, Iggy, Lou,Bowie,Smiths, Happy Mondays, Stone Roses, James, Blur on their first tour of the Uk at Warrington Rugby Club,(Daman Albarn introduced the band as ‘ we are from from London’ and immediately got hit with a can of Holsten Pils in the face) welcome to the North! He took it well, Mazzy Star and Sparkhorse on at the same venue, and probably my most watched band, The Fall, I’ve got quite a few photos of those guys other the years.

Personal opinion aside. TG1 doesn’t apply to me as I don’t climb commercially in the UK, so I haven’t given it much thought on how I would be compliant if need be, but it really wouldn’t be that hard. This will surely depend on your status, employed, sub contract climber or employer, with many variables. The large operators like Gristwood and Toms will have HR departments, internal trainers and the financial clout to tick all the boxes effectively, job done if your employed there. Employed elsewhere, your at the mercy of the employer, good or bad. They will either take this seriously or not, you could pressure them, they see you as a shit stirrer and you get the chop, or they could see it as a simple exercise and get on it. Contract climber subbing for different companies. The companies may take this seriously and do regular practice with employees without your involvement, may involve you as a regular part of a team, or ignore it all together, you need to be proactive on this. Self employed/owner operator, it’s up to you to decide how best to manage your compliance. There have been several ideas put forward in this thread, none are hard to apply. At the end of the day, if you can’t rely on any of the above you could self rescue and just do what Dan Blocker suggested earlier, rec climb, bbq, beer and most importantly, make a record with as much detail as possible. Photos, various kit and scenarios, with or without safety line, with or without belay system and timings of all rescues etc. Post a first draft on here and tag one of the AA in on here, see what their response is, if positive crack on, if not, edit and review the information.

Your either physically performing aerial rescue practice and recording the information to comply with TG1, or your not. What you did or didn’t say you do is irrelevant.

I questioned why the 4 aerial rescue cases you mentioned couldn’t self rescue, apart from being unconscious, as it would be the quickest and safest way down. Having a competent climber on the ground to perform a rescue, then allowing the main climber to climb and cut without ppe and then need rescuing is utter madness, no matter how much rescue practice has been done. I have never claimed that rescuing a casualty isn’t an option, it is and always will be on all of my jobs, I obviously put more thought and provision on self rescue and less weight on being rescued, this comes from previous practice and the luxury of experienced ground staff who have my back. Do you comply with TG1 in performing mandatory aerial rescue or not? The OP has stated he doesn’t. If not, what valid reason do you have for this?

I have not claimed that at any point in this thread. Neither have I ‘Risked Assessed’ out the option of aerial rescue for myself or others on my job, If I can’t self rescue there will always be a competent climber on site to get me down. If TG1 states that Aerial rescue is mandatory, what reasons can you give for why you are not complying with it?

If you actually read my posts my position is pretty obvious.

In this situation, knowing the climber had epilepsy, you would always have a safety line and recovery plan in place, 30 minutes is an unbelievable time to be suspended in a harness, glad you even got down safely.

So basically your bigging up aerial rescue practice as mandatory, claiming your doing it, yet haven’t got any timings/data/images that might be useful for others to look at to offer discussion on how they might be improved, how one mechanical device reduced rescue time over friction hitches etc. Ive already said how long the Aerial Rescues we practiced would take, between 6 minutes up to double that, in most cases of severe bleeds, we deemed that to be too long. It’s a public forum but as I don’t agree with your view so I shouldn’t comment or have any further discussion, is that right?

I haven’t a clue what you are talking about. I haven’t made any claims that someone else carrying out an aerial rescue isn’t valid, of course it is in some circumstances, but self rescue if possible is the fastest and safest route, what part of that are you struggling with?