Echo

Hi everyone Am just wondering if there is such a thing as a nylon type air filter to be got for a Makita EA-4300, I think the Dolmar PS-421 is the same saw. They both seem to come only with a flocked type. Thanks for looking.

The new 550xp mk2 is also an option, 60.00 pounds more expensive, but a totally new design, and for what you are doing the 545 mk 2 is also out, only 8 pounds more xpensive than the old 550xp, its close in power to the 550 but does not have rev boost, which wont hold you back much, unless you get a bit of discount on the older 550xp I would try and hold out for the newer 550xp or go 8 pounds more for the new 545 mk2. Either way, hope you get sorted and enjoy your purchase.

I had a new 362 last year, sold it after a month so had no trouble, other than starting, I found it getting harder to start every day almost from the word go. Solenoids that are opening and closing lots like in the case of these saws are bound to wear out quick enough, not like a one that does little to nothing on a starter motor or similar that only gets a dab now and then, my worry would be the coils in these saws with the other electronics buried in them, am sure they won't be cheap. I plan on a new saw in a while, 45 to 50 cc range, don't see Stihl having a pro saw in this size, so most likely the mk2 545 or 550 xp, am still afraid of the 261 saws, I just do not trust a company that would use soft metal in a crank, and do the dirty on their customers, its not that Stihl do not know how to make a saw, they chose to cut corners and that is just a total insult to those who buy their products. In any event, I hope its something simple and the OP gets up and running soon, I suppose make sure the saw has no scores on the piston rings or barrel, the fuel filter is clean, the fuel lines are all good, and the carb is take down and cleaned, air filter is good, boot is good, coil is not moving, never looked at the coil setup on mine so not sure if it can be rotated regarding timing if it were to loosen, other than in and out, then as someone said, the solenoid may be the issue, its not difficult to change, how about the plug gap, not too small, how about a reset of the MT, or a recalibration. Even something as simple as a blocked spark arrestor can cause what you have going on. Hope you get sorted

Agreed, a lot of people suffered because of the soft cranks in those 261 's with the end of the crank wearing, and internals like bearings going out with very low hours. I am going to get a new 45cc, but am waiting to hold one of the new 550 mk2 saws, they are advertised as being heavier than the old 550, but if the problems of old are sorted, that should bring back customers, the smaller 45cc which the dealer never mentioned coming in, will probably be my choice though, unless when I see them together the 550 has something that can lure me. The OP saw question, difficult one, but from using an MS180, I think he would be more than happy with a 50cc Pro saw, unless he is cutting those larger often, for getting a saw big enough to cut them at some speed is going to land him with a saw that will be way too heavy for continuous use on anything under 12 inch, which a 50cc will handle all day long, a jump from a 180 to even a 50 or 60cc saw is no joke, night and day difference and unless you need to cut big wood, hard wood or cut wood fast, its going to tire you out, being tired with a chainsaw in your hands is no place to be, standing in a yard cutting rings may be manageable with a big saw, its essentially resting on the log as you cut, only need to lift it back up for the next cut again, but stumbling and climbing around a forest wood or hill side is going to make life tougher. The Echo 501 is a good saw, especially for firewood type of work, it is light too, small things like the see through tank is hand so you don't run out, its easy started, there is no Auto tune or Mtronic to go wrong, just a carb. As regards bar length, I would stick with 16 inch even on a 60cc saw, thats what I had on my echo 501, the 15 inch that fits that echo is not as deep, it has a smaller radius nose too, both things I avoid, the 16 is ideal. Makita Dolmar are also good saws, I would avoid the current 50cc Stihls, wouldn't mind a 241, and see what the new Husqvarna's are like, the problems with the older Husqvarna's were sorted as best they could, and many people had no trouble with them, they will probably be a bit cheaper with the new models coming out. What ever you chose I hope it serves you well.

I agree with the posts above, use a good quality mix oil is important, ration withing reason, I always keep on the safe side with a little more oil in the mix. And tune rich enough to avoid running lean. Tune weather and altitude can really cause trouble and need to be monitored. spudulike I concur with your tuning advise, in regard to the smaller and echo saws, first experience with this model has shown just how the tiniest movement of the screws make a big change, though this one can be easily made soot up the plug with any riching up on the low screw, it came this way, which bothered me, as it needs to be running on the edge of sooty to idle and throttle up, but I have given up on getting idle spot on for this reason, as it throttles up just fine now and no more soot other than normal is produced. I hope to bring the L out slightly when the dealer gets his new tach, other than this, this little saw cuts very well. This is the first time I dealt with this Echo dealer, he is only a few hundred feet higher than where I live, but this saw definitely reacts to it when in his yard and mine. The sound of the saw changes quite noticeably, add the damp weather that appeared just as I started my second round of cutting at my place, and one would think some one swapped out the saw for another, learning all the time.

Yes, more oil in your mix leans it, the engine would get dangerously hot, so you need to adjust your carb to restore the balance. 18 to 1 is apparently where things get out of shape and the amount of fuel you would need to run rich enough would not burn clean or in time, if it made it to above the cylinder, there would be all sorts of trouble with it burning.

Glazing has more to do with too much heat in your cylinder and burning bad fuel, corn oil and such, and with the well machined surfaces we now have in nearly all engines, oil plays way less of a part in sealing the ring and piston, and with certain designs of rings, which are pushed out against the cylinder wall by the same pressure acting on the top of the piston, oil plays very little part in sealing, but is under more pressure to lube.

Yes, unfortunately there is discrepancies in the quantity contained in those mix bottles, that is why I measure mine from a larger bottle just to be sure. but there are a lot of factors in play at any one time, oil ratio is only one part of it, so its best to pick a mix ratio that you think will provide enough oil to lube and fuel to burn, heavy loaded saws need more oil and indeed more fuel helps cool them too as opposed to letting them go lean. the oil type, synthetic, dino, a mix of both as well as any other additives in the oil need to be considered, as these additives can cause problems if higher volumes of oil are mixed with the fuel, this is why there are so many oils out there, some more specific and limited than others, and the purpose it was designed for needs to be matched to the job at hand and the prevailing conditions.

Over oiling is not the answer, there have been studies done that determine the amount of oil an engine needs to lubricate its innards, when this figure is known, it must be provided, and in a chainsaw engine it is mixed in with the fuel, those who calculate this amount of oil also know how long it takes for an engine starting from cold to saturate all the bearings and coat the cylinder wall, at which point your engine is ready to be revved in anger, doing so sooner can cause damage from lack of oil. So once the oil requirement is determined then the fueling can be calculated, two separate issues, but both are linked in that both mediums, oil to lubricate and fuel to power the engine come mixed, no one guessed these figures, for oil surface area, crank case pressure and mechanical aids such as the crank throwing oil and oil viscosity are all taken into account. viscosity does not matter in synthetic oil, as it is electrically attracted to the surfaces of the engine, designed to be so, it creeps into the microscopic pours of the metal, where the dino oils have to create a film between the moving parts and plays a very big role in this. Is Saber pro not semi synthetic, the best of both worlds, there seems to be a lot more to how oil does it job than may be immediately obvious. I wish I knew more about it. I took many engines apart that burned almost as much oil as fuel, and they were not glazed, just oily, oil in this quantity will stick rings and cause trouble, but if I had to chose between oil and soot, oil it would be, soot is like grit in your engine, and will destroy it in no time, oil can be cleaned off, which happens in race engines, it has to happen because they depend on a liberal dose of oil to keep the engine from ceasing up from the heat generated under high speed and power conditions. In any event, when the fuel and oil are pulled into the two stroke, the fuel begins to separate as its heated and becomes lighter leaving the most of the oil in the lower end where it is needed, so not all the oil in the mix makes it above the piston. There is even a compression ratio calculated to assist in both fueling and oiling for the crank case as the piston moves down, this plays a part in the separation of the oil and fuel, as well as sending the charge up through the ports.

The adjustment you have to make from running 50:1 and going to 32:1 wont be a big one, your going from 2% oil to 3.25 % oil, given your engine is tuned to start with, thats only 1.125 % of a difference, so if your engine was tuned slightly rich, then it would even cope without adjustment. though it would be the right thing to do a slight adjustment to keep things right. But oil and cats do not work well together, heat from the escaping oil meeting a hot cat, I just don't think the cat will remain clean for long, without a cat you stand a far better chance in every way, cooler and more lubricated engine.

I read that two stroke tuners paper, and others, and to cut a long story short, more oil is generally better than too little. Oil serves many purposes, it creates a better seal between the ring and piston, it lubes, and it removes heat from the engine, by providing less friction and going out the exhaust taking the heat it absorbed with it. Some engines handle oil better than others, some tests were done on a Suzuki bike engine on a dyno, at 15:1 20:1 and 30:1, each time the engine was tuned to put the exact same amount of fuel through it taking into account the added flow required to carry along the various differing amounts of oil mixed in it, the engine did great with 20:1 which Suzuki already specified from their tests, 15:1 came second, with 30:1 responsible for scoring the cylinder, 30:1 was tested second place, and resulted in a new piston being required, 15:1 produced the most power and ran the coolest even though it was running the barrel the 30:1 marked, 20:1 was the second most powerful setup, and again was cooler than the 30:1 test that produced the scoring, and slightly hotter than the 15:1 mix which ran the coolest and produced the most power. You can use more oil to provide better lubrication, but the engine still has to get the correct volume of fuel to run properly, easy enough to achieve as long as some genius does not slap a cat on your exhaust, to stop the flow of things, this essentially does away with the prospect of using more oil to both lube better and carry off heat.

I have a 40 year old stihl 041, it has had every conceivable mix run through it, engine oil used, oil for two stroke boats, cheap oil, it actually never seen any of what is now considered to be good oil, and as regards ratio, very little attention other than always over doing it, and that saw has never been opened, and still runs, the odd time it smoked with the various mix ratios, it got its carb adjusted a year ago after I saw my father pouring fuel into the carb to start it, it was like this for 4 years, a slight turn on the L and it never needed another cap of fuel to start it. But these modern saws, with probably tighter fit, and these cats are more particular, I would not like to treat one of the newbies like that old stihl. I find this 352 a good saw for its size, it has done some weird things on me, I ran it again, and it has now got rid of the junk on the piston top, unbelievable, am beginning to think the oil in the mix is not the best choice for this saw, in that it seems to have too much body. I would like to richen it up mix a bit to get it to idle perfect, but as soon as I do, it starts to blacken the plug more than I like, (soot not oil). Since the dealer leaned the H, it takes an extra pull to start it, and nearly always two pulls if it sits five minutes outside, this points to lean, but the dam thing is not, the tiniest screw on the L causes black plug in no time, the H seems to tolerate riching up better. When the dealers new tach arrives I will see what the rpm is like, for now it is at least cutting and seems to handle the revs it currently pulling. Would love to get the idle right without sooting up the plug, that bugs me, as does the extra pull to start it, am adamant not to let it soot up, and seem to have hit a wall with any adjustments to the L making it do so.

Good to know 50:1 has served you well, a lot of people use much more oil to help lubricate, I will too after I get my job done and have time to address whether to de cat or find a non cat muffler. Yes .25L is not much, mine seems to go through it quicker than I thought it would. So I guess am not too lean.

Hi Paul, thats a lot of fuel through your saw, am only at 3 tanks yet. what ratio of petrol to oil do you run, what brand is your 2 stroke oil. THANKS

Thanks wyk, I can't stand the idea of a cat in there at all, seems like the worst idea ever in a two stroke engine. I took the saw back to the dealer, I showed him the slightly black plug, he said it was a small bit rich, so he leaned out the H, said the plug would be ok to use, so am just going to run it, I told him I considered it way too hot and that I was trying to avoid coming back with it burned up, he said Echo would cover it, that they run this hot, not overly happy, but if i remove the cat then I will end up with no warranty. I find this saw very odd, the bog has gone now after another hours cutting, I put my tach on it, the same tack I used yesterday when it read 10,800 is now jumping all over the place, eventually settling at 10,200, the saw definitely is four-stroking less, the dealers tach showed12,400, so how on earth am I getting a lower reading, given the saw was leaned out, the Echo dealer has ordered a new tach which I will get him to put on the saw when it arrives, still does not explain why my tach which worked on my cs501 and all my other non mt at saws is now jumping and reading too low when it was fine yesterday.

Anyone using one of these, having similar experience, or not.

Hi everyone, I got a new cs352 with a 14 inch bar and 91 vlx chain. Ran just over a tank of fuel through it, let the saw run before shutting down. The saw being new, I pulled the plug to ensure all was well. First off I never felt as hot a plug or engine top. There was a hint of oil on top of the piston and a little spot of soot closer to the outlet. I fell the saw has a slight bog coming off idle, it was so bad when I started the saw from new, that I needed to take out the low screw 3/16 of a turn, this helped a little, now this bog is a slow motion one that clears slowly and is subtle. I put a tach on the engine and it tops out at 10,800, spec says 12,500 max, so am on the safe side regarding fuelling, the seller said not to open the saw up much above 11,000, as they do run very hot, and the more rpm 's the hotter they get. Wondering what you all recommend, if I take out the L any more am afraid the idle will become uneven, it has done so already from my initial 3/16 turn to get her off the line, I idled her up to compensate, but still not as good as before the L adjust. This is the only saw I have with a cat, am quite sure its contributing to the rather hot running, but its new and I am hoping there may be things I can do other than removing the cat. Though I would like to hear how to address the cat for later, does it need to be cut out, or is a large hole drilled through it enough. Is the fuel filter in these 352 's restricted some how, the way the subtle bog clears slowly may be a fuel restriction from the tank, the seller / dealer says some of them do not completely clear, this makes me think am not the only user to have mentioned this to him, he also said to pull the trigger steadily rather than just gunning it.

Go through the fuel lines and filters, replace if suspect, clean carb well and put a kit in it, this alone may solve your issue, also ensure there is no air leak between the carb and the cylinder intake, a leak there will cause your saw to run lean, rev up and down a little, and it will most likely be there at idle too, which you seem to say is the case, check or change the impulse line too. If you can look in the exhaust port to ensure no scoring has taken place on the piston, cylinder walls or rings, for any such damage would need sorted first, I say this because you say the saw surges and seems to have plenty of power, which can be the case when its running lean, heard it so many times, saw was perfect, never run better, then no time later the obvious happens, ceases up because it was running lean. Hopefully it will be something simple, and as others mentioned, don't run it until you find the problem, or you could end up going from a cheap repair to a very costly one, or worse, I think air leak somewhere, if the saw is good enough to be spending money on, then at least change all fuel lines, filter, clean carb and put a kit in it, and check to ensure there is no leaks between the carb and the cylinder, spray some wd40 around that joint or boot, ensure you use the long straw to do this and do not let the wd40 get into the airy breather as that will change the saws sound too, for obvious reasons, spray it around the base of the cylinder too, while the saw is running of course, and listen for changes in engine tone, or even look out for air bubbles around the case or seals if you have enough panels off to get in at these areas. It could be simple, and I hope it is.

Very good saw is the 346, probably two and a half times the price though.

Hi George Personally I had one small Husqvarna, and never again, others may have had better luck with them, they are made to a price point, have little in common with their bigger siblings at all. Have you considered other brands, Makita / Dolmar, Echo, Stihl, much tougher saws, am new on here, was looking for a saw a week ago, until I met a local, so got one he had for sale.

Stihl in my area is same price as Oregon, they even charge the same for Carlton, not saying one is better. Cleaning wood is the way to go, I need a new power washer first, a 40 footer is a lot of cleaning, was in my local wood recently, shocked to see the same logs sitting there for Two years now, it should be well washed by now. I will give the site sponsors a shout when I make up my mind. From what I read here and elsewhere, cemi chisel does seem to last longer between sharpenings, this is what I need, only thing to do now is to pick one to try out, sharpening is another things, so will get what ever most people report to be easy in this respect. Thanks to all for posting

Thanks Dan Maynard the saw will be an Echo 501, so not a big saw, any recommendations on what cemi chisel to try, I can easily find the semi, re the link wyk posted, but having not used Oregon them maybe someone will chime in regarding a smooth running chain in the cemi chisel variety, anyone using 21BPX, it has a bumper link as well as the usual curve on the raker, I want to stick to one chain for felling and cutting up, as there is not really much clean wood available to me.

Thanks, the 261 has way more grunt than the Echo 501, and with a little work it comes close up to a 362, but lighter and smaller, I had a 362 but sold it on, my next 60 cc saw will be a 60 something saw, 50 and 60 too close for my duties. Good point about the nature of the 325 as you use it.

Hi Rough Hewen I use .325 on such a small saw, and on .58 bar, I see according to Oregon, this EXL is for saws from 50cc and up, isn't it a full chisel too. Thanks

Hi to all I use the 21LPX chains on 50cc with 16 inch bar. They do ok in the varied wood I cut, Ash Birch Elm and Sitka spruce. I will need more chain, and am looking for recommendations. The main issue with the 21LPX for me is it blunts easy because of the dirty wood. Would LGX be any better, I have never used BPX either though I thinks it may be micro chisel and slightly less effective speed wise. What would you all think appropriate for cutting fairly dirty timber, especially the Sitka as it is usually dragged through the muck when I get it, this is why I get it. We will only be using the small saws, 50cc, so don't want aggressive chain either, the main reason being the cutter is learning so using the small saws in the yard, before going into the fields. Thanks for looking