trigger_andy

3 hours ago, Big J said:

I don't even think with higher wages that Brits would entertain the idea of fruit/veg picking. The issue is that it has to be tied to production rate and like with chainsaw operation, the difference between the best and the worst is massive and hourly rates can't be paid in such situations.

So what in your opinion has changed from when I was a youth when this work was all done by indigenous British people to now when it’s primarily carried out by cheap European Labour? Be both know the answer to that but you’ll continue to ignore reality.

3 hours ago, Big J said:

Another point potentially worth noting is that Brits aren't very good at sticking at one job for extended periods of time.

Empirically I don’t see what you’re saying reflected in everyday life. The plumber I know is still a plumber, the sparkie I know is still a sparkie, the farmers are still farmers. I’ve personally been with the same company for 25 years now. 
 

3 hours ago, Big J said:

regards immigration here in Sweden, no one will argue that it was done perfectly. Too many in too short a time is the consensus. The problems are obviously worse in the cities and we don't see the kinds of issues that they do. 

You can down play the utter failure of mass migration in Sweden all you like. Again, reality does not reflect your point of view as the link I provided from Swedens very own PM shows. The reality is far darker than he dares mention. 
 

3 hours ago, Big J said:

really like that our school has 30% kids with parents born outside of Sweden. It's about 10-12% German/Austrian, and my daughters are at school with kids from Syria, the Baltic states, the UK, almost every country in Europe and even America. 

When my kids went to the British International in Stavanger is was a very multicultural school. It was great and the kids thrived. Thankfully my kids will never have to experience a multinational school in the U.K. 

3 minutes ago, Johnsond said:

The first part of the quote is so appropriate nowadays. As for the second, well the reward is you get absolutely humped. 

Last year the unions got us a 5.2% increase (pish I know) The company was allowed to give poor performers 3.2% and high performers 7.2%. In the end they have everyone 5.2%. 🙄 

I don’t want a pay rise for tax reasons but I asked how on earth do people who work hard feel their work is appreciated. They said those that go the extra mile do so because the want to. 
 

Now the hard workers don’t bother their arse anymore. 🤷🏻‍♂️

1 hour ago, Big J said:

The UK labour market was knackered long before there was full freedom of movement.

Yet all the fruit and Tattie pickers you’re indigenous back then. We had thriving apprenticeships throughout the U.K. that was then decimated by a flood of cheap pre-qualified European workers.

We now see a resurgence in apprenticeships and this is primarily due to greedy companies no longer having easy access to cheap foreign labour and now having to look to long term workforce development. (I see you cover this in your next paragraph but in my opinion the facts don’t tally with your POV)

1 hour ago, Big J said:

. I work harder than most,

My dad works harder than your dad.  

No, I know you do. And I know agriculture is hard graft. So when the EU allows those from Eastern Europe to undermine the already meagre wages of course the indigenous population will look elsewhere for employment. 
 

1 hour ago, Big J said:

How many people that have grown up in the UK do you know that you could see in that line of work? 

I live in the heart of Angus, the breadbasket of Scotland. I’m surrounded by Farms and Farmers. My friends and acquaintances are Farmers and they also employ local lads. Now that I think about it I see very few Europeans in their workforce. 
 

There is still the bus loads of seasonal workers doing the unskilled laborious work of course. But they do it because it’s financially viable for them. If I could move to a nice 1st world country for the summer and make multiple times the wage I could at home then I’d do that too. The only way we can have incredibly cheap fresh produce is by paying the workers pennies on the pound but at the same time those pennies on the pound are actual pounds for them where they come from. For an indigenous workforce to re-enter this market the wages would have to reflect the living costs of the country they are working/living in. Until that happens we’ll have those that believe Brexit was a bad idea calling these people lazy when I’m fact they are not willing to subject themselves to slave like conditions for pennies.

1 hour ago, Big J said:

have a more open attitude to immigration here because we live in a depopulated area.

And look where that’s got them….

7 hours ago, scbk said:

Maybe they should look at ways of reducing traffic, I think it has already been proved that you can't build your way out of a traffic jam with more roads, you just get more cars.

I like that one.  Reducing traffic whilst at the same time importing over half a million people a year onto the island. Irony at its finest. 

7 hours ago, Big J said:

 

But my point is that I feel that immigration is far less of an issue that utterly useless people that contribute nothing taking up resources and offering little back in return. You don't actually need to do that much to be a net contributor, but that seems to be beyond the means of many.

The UK certainly needs to get its house in order thats for sure! Until we do we should shut the doors to all but the very exceptional asylum cases.

No one seems to be able to explain how we will build near enough homes to house the 600-700,0000 migrants coming in per year. Its simply not feasible. Its the elephant in the room that we're ignoring and responding with soundbites such as 'well, we have a huge skill' shortage. Its such non sequitur reasoning. 

7 hours ago, Big J said:

The UK has a massive skills shortage and part of it is people growing up these days not wanting to work in jobs that are physically demanding. There literally isn't a single UK born fruit and veg picker.

This is primarily because of open borders and joining  the EU. I'm 'only' 44 and when I was a youth there was no foreign fruit and veg pickers it was all done by British workers, myself included. When you flood the market with cheap labour who is happy working their fingers to the bone for what is seen as a pittance to the indigenous people then they'll simply stop working in that sector. I have no doubt that if the Eastern Europeans who have undercut the British people would simply upsticks if the Farmers were allowed to import North Koreans who'd thank their lucky stars at simply being given 3 square meals a day and a warm bed without the threat of their whole family being sent to a reeducation camp. 

Joining the EU and the importation of cheap labour has been devastating to the UK and will take generations to fix. Only those who pin their hopes on Brexit failing expect decades of dumbing down the UK to the lowest common denominator would be fixed within a few years. 

4 minutes ago, Mark Bolam said:

You do talk some shite.

I’m glad I’m not the only one who’s noticed. 

5 minutes ago, Big J said:

 

I don't agree, and I don't think we're going to agree. I only interjected to point out that illegal immigration plays a very minor role in the net migration figures, and to laugh at the obviously counterproductive effect of Brexit.

No, I guess we’ll never agree. But surely we can agree on the reasons you left the U.K. particularly being over-crowding, Rabbit Hutch Housing and ridiculous house prices? 
 

I really don’t see the connection between mass migration and Brexit though. What part of Brexit in your mind has resulted in an increased number of people wishing to live in the U.K.? Is it that Brexit is working and making the U.K. a more desirable place to live than say Germany with its sinking economy? 

1 hour ago, Big J said:

I didn't say that immigration doesn't add to housing stresses. You were pinning most of the blame on those crossing the channel in small boats, and I was just pointing out that they don't make up much of the total number.

Migration is by far the single biggest reason for the housing crisis. Highlighting that illegal immigration alone will result in the UK never resolving the situation. The fact that there is still 600,000 'legal' migrants entering the UK a year shows just how futile the situation is.

1 hour ago, Big J said:

mmigration certainly contributes to housing stress, but systemic failure in planning and house building by successive governments is the primary issue.

I dont agree. Having to house an extra 650,000 a year on top of the population grown at the expense of the taxpayer is an impossible task. No amount of planning could resolve this no matter the budget. 

1 hour ago, Big J said:

Either way, house looks nice, location is good, plot is 1/5 acre, but it's too much work and it's only had one bid so far at £7k. Even at that price, no one can really be bothered. If it was on our old lane in Devon, it'd be £300k 😄

Amazing! I wish the cottages next to be came up at that price! They needed gutting and cant even legally be lived in, holiday cottages only and they went for over £60k each. 

25 minutes ago, Big J said:

UK net migration in 2022 was just over 600,000. 

How on earth can we continue to build houses and infrastructure at that rate though? Its impossible, we're an island and an over populated one at that. Even if net migration was zero it would take years to fix the housing crisis we have today. Importing 650,000 annually is absolutely the single biggest source of the housing crisis, your very own figures confirm this.

One of the reasons you indicated you moved away from the UK was over crowding and how much you enjoy not seeing another soul on your daily bike rides. You also regularly moan about the Rabbit Hutch Housing here in the UK and at the same time you refuse to acknowledge that a net migration of over 600,000 a year is not a significant issue in the Housing Crisis. Its mind boggling.

25 minutes ago, Big J said:

Immigrants having crossed the channel illegally in 2022 numbered 46,000

That's just the tip of the iceberg though, the vast majority of these illegal's are working age men. If that bleeding heart lefty who claimed earlier in this thread that 90% of them get legal status then they'll simply bring their families over and significantly swell that number. Even if we ignore the 600,000 net legals coming over we're still having to build over 40,000 just to house illegal's each year. Its a massive undertaking that will solely be placed on the taxpayer. 

Its little wonder you left the UK, and you sure moaned and complained about it for long enough before you finally did so, but to sit there in your relative remote piece of Swedish paradise and claim mass migration is not a serious issue is laughable. 

1 hour ago, Steven P said:

en-suites which to be fair are unnecessary add to the footprint of the house, which adds to the environmental impact.

Might be unnecessary but so what? Where do you draw the line at whats necessary in life? We could spend days whittling down what we use/consume on a daily basis and Im quite confident an en suite would be considered low impact compared to most of our conveniences. Its such a pointless and ridiculous thing to highlight.

2 hours ago, Steven P said:

Not sure I want to piss in a cupboard in the bed room but that is just me.

You're not sure if you want to piss in a cupboard? As in you've not made your mind up yet? I bet you wear your shoes indoors as well. 

2 hours ago, Steven P said:

Referring to the report in question, the more we pave over near rivers, the more rain washes straight in without soaking through the soil. A contributing factor to flooding but also washing any pollutants straight off the property and into the watercourse, for example grass feeds and weed killers, but also dog and cat poo, which the builders had to account for in the past. You'll probably say that this is a small factor but,,, every little helps and with the manifesto target of 300,000 new homes a year (see link below) that is a lot of little bits of pollution.

Im not in favour of building more and more houses though. If we're going to take environmental issues seriously we need to vastly reduce our population on this small island of ours. Thats by far the bigger picture than worrying about the supposed impact a few extra square meters an en suit has. Not even the die hard climate change lunatics have a hard -on for en suits.   

8 minutes ago, Steven P said:

Small boats in the channel before Brexit: 

Small Boats in the channel after Brexit:

You do the reading, it might blow your mind....

A thriving industry now, a real tory success story that.

So we agree, it has nothing to do with Brexit? 

Just now, 5thelement said:

Should have voted for Brexit. 
Regain our Borders. 😂

What does Brexit have to do with economic migrants illegally flooding over the Chanel in small boats?
 

Saying that Brexit has seen a significant amount of Eastern Europeans return home. A case in point has seen a shortage of lorry drivers due to these people leaving and a serious increase in the wages British lorry drivers could command. As it should be.    

1 hour ago, sime42 said:

Think you're still missing the point, but no worries if you want to focus on toilets and dumping! Which kind of brings us back full circle funnily enough;- there's already too many dumps in our rivers, and that's now set to get even worse with this piece of news that started this topic. Good work.

 

Your 'point' somehow failed to mention arguably the single biggest contributor to the housing crisis in the UK which is mass migration yet at the same time included en suites as a cause and you're still unable to explain why.  

Just now, Steven P said:

 

Exactly the point we are making, something like 90% of the 'illegal' migrants are granted refugee status - they have a valid and legal claim to be given refuge from the countries they came from - and when they are, these 17,000 single men do not want executive houses, they will need smaller properties more suited to a lower wage..... which is exactly the point I am making. What is being built is not what we need

Whatever your views on their 'legal' status the fact remains that this supposed decline in in the population we'll not witness for decades is irrelevant to the housing shortage we're witnessing for British people. This years batch of 17,000 illegal's coming over by boat will now need homed. If they had a legal claim to live in the UK then they'd enter legally, but they dont. They are illegal's, simple as.  They will be given homes that British people desperately need. And who are you to say whats being built is not what we need? If they're being bought, bought being the pertinent word as opposed to just handed to as in the vast majority of the illigals entering our border then they are being bought by those who are paying the backbone of income tax in the UK. They are highly likely, not not always, leveling up meaning they are vacating a smaller, less expensive property allowing someone further down the ladder a chance to either get on the ladder or move up a notch.

And who do you think should pay to build these free houses for endless flood of illegal's? No one has any spare money to pay an increased tax to home them. 

But to convince yourself that the supposed housing crisis is not primarily driven by mass immigration is asinine in the extreme. 

3 minutes ago, Steven P said:

 

Mentioned above that population trends are more single person households, and a population predicted to fall in the next 20 to 30 years. Young people are the ones who cannot find a suitably priced house to buy. The housing we need are not executive houses, 5 bedrooms and 6 bathrooms, but smaller 1 or 2 person flats that are affordable for young people to but, and cheaper to run than taking 90% of a 25 year olds salary. Don't need to be ripping up all the spare green space, but to replace, refurbish, upgrade the towns that we have - there is enough brownfield sites to do this.... however brownfield sites cost more to develop which the big political backers don't like, far cheaper to give an annual £11 million bung and rip up the countryside, join u pall the towns so we don't see any green on our commutes.

 

 

I think you missed sime42s point being more worried with semantics rather than understanding what he was actually saying - fewer en-suits, home cinemas, garages, all come down to smaller houses (more flats for single occupancy, and terraces)(which is what the housing need actually is), built where we have previously built and to allow more green stuff to grow. Semantics... but you are focussing on toilets rather than what he actually means. Flooding for example is increased the more we pave over, build on and mess with flood plains (next to rivers as in the article for example)

 

 

Edit...

If you think that the way to go is executive houses, would you be prepared to pay your young staff enough to afford a £1k+ monthly mortgage?

Stating that the population is supposedly going to decrease within the next 20-30 years does in no way explain the housing shortage we are experiencing today. 

Seventeen thousand illegal immigrants have crossed the channel in boats this year so far. That's just illegal's crossing by boat, its not including the other illegal's entering the UK nor those who are legal migrants. Of these 17,000 illegal's the vast majority are working/fighting age men. Once these men have been processed and no longer live in Hotels they will be homed. They will not be homed in a commune, they will be given a house or a flat. They will then be allowed, or even if they are not allowed they will bring their families or extended families with them. But even if they dont thats 17,000 less homes for the British population, this year alone. The year is not even over yet. Since records began in 2018 100,000 illegal's have crossed the channel in boats and very few have been deported. Again, this is not including genuine migrants entering the UK  by legal means who needed homed nor the illegal's entering the UK by other means. 

To not lay the blame at mass migration being the leading driver in lack of homes for the British public is simply burying your head in the sand and ignoring reality. 

But yeh, the real issue is when Wimpy builds houses with an en suite for the people who can actually afford to pay for that house who undoubtedly will be funding the housing for those who are flooding over our boarders. Semantics my arse!

8 hours ago, sime42 said:

I was more concerned about the scrapping of environmental protections rather than the building of more homes. But anyway......

 

Housing problem solutions, in no particular order;-

Contraception

Less ensuite toilets

More brownfield development

Less cars

More barges

Less games rooms/home cinemas/garages

More terraced housing

Less retail parks

More flights to the other side of the world

Less lobbying and donations by housing developers

More bikes and cycling

Less building on floodplains

More honest politicians

Less car washing

More multigenerational house occupancy, (like those multiculturalists do)

Less showering

More flats for single occupancy

Less paved over front gardens

 

 

Did you forget about mass migration? Weird how thats not on your exhaustive list.

And how does an ensuite toilet contribute? Its not like if there is not one installed that you need to go to the toilet any less frequently. Its not like as if another family member is using the only government sanctioned toilet in the house that the dump you badly needed suddenly vanishes. 

Why you're pushing for the UK population to live in some kind of dystopian almost Matrix style Rabbit Hutch's stacked in uniform little rows is anyone's guess. 

Are you guilty of any of the crimes you list above? Or is it just other people that should submit to less showering, only living in a terraced house, no ensuite in your house? 

If you're not guilty of any of the above it sounds more like sour grapes than anything. 

8 hours ago, Steven P said:

However... don't need 5 bedrooms, 6 toilets and 5 car spaces next to a leafy riverside setting.

Why not? 

11 hours ago, topchippyles said:

He grabbed his bollocks as well they do not mention that much. 

 

 

So what? 

30 minutes ago, coppice cutter said:

Have just acquired a secondhand branch logger which will be used for our own firewood only.

 

I'll be using it primarily on green wood and would hope to store the loggings in a pile under cover but I'm a wee bit worried that they might be very slow drying if the pile is too big.

 

Has anyone else using one found any difficulties in getting the processed material dried out properly?

 

*edit* - when I say "under cover" I mean under a roof, not a cover over the pile.

I used a branch logger fairly often. We log into 1.25m3 vented bags with zero issues. They dry super fast with a breeze. 

On 21/10/2020 at 22:49, Saw-sick Steve said:

Good book that.

Just now, Doug Tait said:

 

Very nice, bingo prizes got a lot better than when my old ma used to go.

She used to be so chuffed with her collection of dodgy looking pound shop dolls she 'won'!

The Rig buys in about £5000 in prizes a week for the Bingo. Its basically a way to fairly divvy out the prizes and not be accused of favoritism. 

1 hour ago, Doug Tait said:

I just heard the breaking news story of the day. Andy took a big purse at the rig bingo last night. Wearing his lucky tux he took 3 individual line wins at £6.50 each, and finished with the last house call of the night for a staggering £20.

Congrats Andy!

I won a iPad Pro actually. Think it was my lucky Panties. 

1 minute ago, Johnsond said:

Pretty much the same here Andy, keeping an eye on things with plenty of coffee. Doing some shallow work on a production semi’s mooring systems. Cracking viz and dive conditions. Steak Saturday too 👍👍

Very nice! Steak Saturday right enough! 
Might even dress up a bit for the bingo tonight 😁

3 hours ago, Will C said:

I had always imagined a oil rig to be a basic place with sticky floors and inhabited by tobacco chewing inbred imbeciles that are the missing link from ape to man! That looks like any normal office! You have just shattered my illusions! 

You’ve been watching Armageddon too much. 😁 

Norway’s a bit diffident. All Rigs are CyberRigs now so very little hands on and everything is closely monitored, both data and cameras etc. it’s great that I can sip my coffee and keep an eye on the guys on the screens then call them on the radio if they’re doing something wrong.