Gary Prentice

Are the online BGS paid for subsidence reports any good? Or just precautionary where no subsidence symptoms are already present? Giles biddle demonstrated some level monitoring on a property where a brick course had dropped 28mm over one MONTH! Subsidence can be very variable but almost impossible to predict. Lots of modelling was attempted by experts years back but testing proved something like only a 50% accuracy.

I often find myself telling a client how the TO will respond to any particular complaint about a tree, playing devils advocate gained through years of meetings, conversations and applications. I wouldn't want your job for the world tbh. If we can work together better, with mutual respect and understanding about each others needs, job descriptions and aims it makes a hell of a lot run smoother. Clients are plentiful, well we have enough, but I'll be dealing with TOs again and again.

I've just lost an appeal on the grounds that its a big green thing that the public can see which overrides the compression forks, lifting block pavers and asymmetrical canopy due to repeatedly pruning back from the house. And it's a sycamore. I'm not moaning, I realise that I look at the tree with arboriculturists eyes and look at long term tree management of the site. The TO admits that they probably wouldn't be able to defend an order on it if they reviewed the area order and identified individual trees, but from a amenitity value perspective it's big and green:biggrin: So post appeal, we have reached an informal agreement to plant a couple of replacement trees and in 3-5yrs when these are successfully established we'll get consent to remove the sycamore. The TO thinks we can agree it, but it wouldn't be binding - so if he and the planning officer move on in the interim we wouldn't have a leg to stand on. he planning officer doesn't know how to write it either and says he'll have to do some research. I could enter into a management plan for the site/tree I think; year 1- plant trees, year 4-remove sycamore. But it would be a lot easier if there's a way of getting consent deferred until a specified date or some pre-determined criteria for establishment (from BS 8545:2014 probably). The planning officer isn't the most experienced at how to provide anything outside the norm so it will be more of a case of me telling him(after you tell me:biggrin:) how to write it. I hope this explains the situation relatively clearly. Gary

If being on arbtalk constitutes CPD, I do a couple more than previously posted.

Good post, but if there are severe soil moisture deficits it may take a lot more than a couple of years before soils return to normal capacity. Giles Biddles book has an example of a property moving, IIRC, 30yrs after tree removal. A question for the original poster, can you be specific on how the survey has identified subsidence. (This is just my personal curiosity). I thought the sellers report had to identify issues like this and any history of remedial work/insurance claims etc. Subsidence investigations are normally quite lengthy, due to recording seasonal changes with level or crack monitoring. Out of interest what part of the country do you live in? We have had one client, purchasing a property, whose surveyor claimed that the house was at risk of subsidence. My investigations revealed the local geography was millstone grit with no evidence of subsidence at all locally - so all may not be as bad as it appears. Good luck.

And you'd soon get a reputation for being unreliable if the roles were reversed.

Think you're going to have to provide some better pictures, foliage, shoots, bark or buds. I can't even confirm those are trees, it could be broccoli from that photo. But welcome to forum, some better photos and you'll get an answer.

6am this morning til 7pm, tomorrow I'm planning to get in for around 4. I do the hrs that's necessary to do my job, but admit they're too many.

Awesome is overused or used inaccurately too frequently. These trees are awesome.

If money was no object and the missus would allow, I'd have a house and garden full of things like these. Love them.

We've had it attached to written quotes for a few years, on the instruction of the local Trading Standards/Fair Trade organization. TBH it causes nothing but confusion to the majority of domestic customers who think that we can't do the job until after the expiry of the cooling off period.

Is this really recent? I've signed it but think I may already have done so a few months back.

I started to doubt my own answer soon after submitting it, as being too brief to be exact. I think there are a two courses of action to which the 'actionable' exemption may be utilized. The legal route would be via County Court, resulting in the owner being forced to do what is necessary to abate the nuisance by the court. The judge decides that it is actionable, hence works necessary are exempt from the TPO. To result to self help I think the new regulations require a five day notice. Then the LA make the decision whether or not the works are exempt and probably direct the extent or degree of the works agreeable/acceptable/allowable under the exemption. I don't know what the penalty actually is for failing to submit a '5 day notice', does anyone? But can't imagine many circumstances where work would be so immediately necessary to abate the AN that they'd be much defense for not submitting one. So in summary, what's actionable is decided by either the court or the PO/TO, relying on it otherwise you'd better have a good defense team on call. This is my understanding anyway.

I thought a nuisance was only actionable when a court deemed it so, thus overriding the TPO.

A LA legal department didn't prosecute when the TO caught another company (twice) on site, saw in hand, felling in contravention! Oh for an ideal world.

Probably a little older. The vans a far from new VW camper which I believe is his daily runaround. If you're ever down Saddleworth way, you'll recognize it by the gnome on the roof and the flock of seagulls chasing behind it.

Thanks Tom. I started the thread yesterday morning, read Skyhucks reply but didn't get the opportunity to confirm it as I was out all day. Then fell asleep in front of the fire for the rest of the night. This has been a great thread with plenty of interesting posts/comments/solutions, so thank you everyone who has contributed.

This is probably the only way forward, if the insurance position that Skyhuck mentioned isn't correct. I'm loathe to as it would appear unprofessional but I can always discuss the rationale of it beforehand. I'll admit to having made applications to fell before to pass the onus to the LA with wearisome clients neighbours. Thanks Jules A perfectly reasonable attitude, the decision made without any pressure or influence from a third party. Would you be in the same frame of mind if he'd been banging on your front door, demanding that you did something? I'm curious and not being argumentative, because I suspect an element of stubbornness occurs in most people when they begin to feel bullied or have others attempt to impose their will on them. Kevin, under the veneer of politeness and civility there is a streak of evil and vindictiveness escaping. I like it:biggrin:

You're correct, in the absence of statutory protection. You don't however have any right to access the tree or (probably) lean a ladder against it. The tree predates the neighbours occupation of the property and strictly speaking there isn't other parking. His is the second of a stone terrace of two houses at right angles to the road. The drive is in front, between the houses and my clients land. There's room to park away from the canopy of the tree, but it would be to the front of his neighbour.

The answer to your question is A)

Private drive. To carry on. At what point should the greater benefit provided by the tree to everyone be overridden by the desire of one? Discuss:biggrin:

Had the same experience. Also had a private tree fall onto council land and the TO tell us if the owner didn't clear it, the council would and charge him. The owner got us to, it may have been a case that the TO's understanding of the legal position was wrong. I don't know.

A valid point. With hindsight, yes my bias is evident in the post. I think he is unreasonable in the extent that alternative solutions are available (whether he should use them is the topic for another debate) and I dislike people who attempt to force their wills on others. But I'm not disagreeing with you

I could, but suspect you'd have to be applying ad infinitum. Our involvement over the years would show regular inspections, preventative works and good management without that. The TO & planning department wouldn't appreciate it much either, they've enough to do. There's certain aspects of this job ie people that p me off at times.

My wife's just mentioned force majeure. I'll do some more reading. Thanks skyhuck