hawthornheavyhorses

Fly-spray thread now set up here: http://arbtalk.co.uk/forum/horse-logging/75987-good-fly-sprays-remedies.html

This was my job last week, moving timber out of an Iron Age Ring Ditch which is a Scheduled Ancient Monument, and putting them in place to be used for seating. Trees had been felled in the winter by another arb firm for a combination of safety reasons and to protect the underlying archaeology. I used Roy our 5 year-old Suffolk with an Ulvins Arch and a large Pole Arch from the British Horse Loggers Charitable Trust Machinery Pool: British Horse Loggers Timber had been cut a bit too short by the arb team, but some of them were well over 30" diameter so were pretty hefty. Logs were completely suspended in order to avoid any ground damage. All-in-all a very satisfying job!

The thing I like about look of the Kombidrag is how low it is to the ground, would be useful for par-buckling shortish big diameter saw logs and getting them out of the mud. I used an Ulvins last week (pics to follow) and I loved it. The only thing was that I thought the arch is a little low, I'd like a little more lift for large logs. Morgan Andersson stuff is great - one day I'll get one!!

Love it! Would love to put him side-by-side with my 18.2 black and white Shire, it would like be his Mini-Me!

As per Cob's post on the Photo thread, what do you use for Fly Spray? It's an essential for horse-loggers, can't expect horses to stand still and concentrate while they are being eaten alive by midges and horse-flys! I currently use DEET based sprays which are effective, but expensive and I don't like using strong chemicals if I can avoid it. Citronella based sprays are ineffective in my experience. I've heard rumours of people using watered-down baby oils, garlic, and all sorts. Thoughts please....!

Think this needs it's own thread, I've been plagued by horse-flys this year and hate using the DEET based sprays. I'll start one if that's ok!

I was offered a Beat Managers position a few years ago. I was working Part Time as a manager in a conservation charity whilst working as a horse logger part-time, and thought that working for the FC for a few years might be good experience. I turned the job down once the contract arrived as I was unhappy with a number of the clauses, especially the one that meant that they could move me internally within the FC to anywhere in the country. I have kids at school and horses to look after and the last thing I would need would be to get moved away if they decided they needed me elsewhere. This is standard for staff over a certain grade, doesn't apply to rangers, craftsmen etc I think. Also there was very little hands-on work, it was all managing contractors and staff. As it happens it was the best decision as we suddenly got lots of work with the horses and went full-time with them and I haven't looked back!

Having looked again, the attachment point for the hook/chain looks too weak for a swingletree. My vote is definitely for Yoke!

Are they definitely swingletrees? They could also be Yokes to be attached between a pair of horses. It's the lack of an attachment point for the traces that makes me wonder. The recessed ends look like they could be used to attach to a martingale or collar strap. Might be a bit short for that though. Either way you'd be looking at £20 ish each I would have thought. You can pick up new ones for £40.

I am Home Counties (not denying it!) but to be fair Ross is from County Tyron! However I would not necessary disagree with you, there are plenty of places where the use of horses is not suitable and where a machine may be the best way. However we usually get called in when there is a combination of factors, where it is wet; with limited or tight access; where the woodland is too small to warrant the use of machinery; where the use of a machine poses too much of a risk of contamination from diesel, oils etc (such as a SSSI) or where the use of tractors would conflict with users. Don't really want to derail this thread with a "horses v's machine" argument. We are the right tool for some sites, and not for others, but there is plenty of work out there for a competent horse logging contractor, so there is definitely a need for our services.

Like your arch set up! How do you elevate the log, is there a winching system?

Well trained Suffolks are probably better in the woods than Shires and Clydes in my opinion, shorter in the leg with a better line of draft and more power. However they need to be working more regularly, they seem to get more "pent up" energy if they are not working a lot and get excited, whereas my experience of shires and clydes is that they are more laid back even when not worked as often. I have a Shire and he is great, but is limited to flat-ish sites with more space to work especially in the arch. I always recommend people get cobs unless they have very strong feelings towards a specific breed or the work for them. The good thing about Suffolks is that we get a fair amount of Demo's etc locally specifically as we have them.

Out of interest, did you buy it new? How much was it? Did you get it from Maggie? Looking to get one myself for next winter. Is it the lack or work or suitable logs that mean it's not being used? I've heard mixed reviews of combi drags so would be interested in your opinion! Matt

He looks great Ross! How tall is he? Doing well for a 4 year old it looks. Matt

Hi Dan! Looking good! Are you a BHL member? If so you should register on the BHL Working Members register when you get a chance. Email details to [email protected] Cheers, Matt

I've had a go too! Might kick me into gear to get my climbing tickets!!

This was me and my lovely old mare Holly (RIP) at APF 2012 skidding our softwood. The most simple way to extract timber, using a simple "swingletree" to attach to a choker chain round the log. Very manoeuvrable and quick, but has limits to what you can pull due to the friction of the log on the ground.

Really like the use of the Combi drag for straw! Mare looks great! How long have you had her?

Know what you mean, but in a modern forestry environment hi vis, lids, radios, etc are all essentials. The base machine (horse) hasn't changed in centuries, but all the other bits help us to be more efficient and safe, so has it's place.

That's Crunchie of Crunchies Cobs, really nice guy and excellent contractor! http://www.crunchiescobs.co.uk

Thought it would be interesting to start a thread to show/compare horses and equipment. I'll start off! This is a couple of pics of a Single horse using a Scandinavian Timber Arch up front, and a "Pole Arch" to support the weight of the log. This was the first time I had used this Pole Arch and the arrangement of strops has since been replaced with chains that allow us to elevate the log much higher. The Log was 7m long Oak and approximately 1200kg. This set up could handle 2000kg on good ground. The overall power to weight ratio and manoeuvrability of this in comparison to a tractor and forwarding trailer is excellent, and it can get through gaps of 1.8m (6ft). It is very quick to elevate the logs and all the wheels are doing is to support the weight of the log, and it avoids driven wheels which are what cause ruts and damage to roots in the woods. It would be quite possible to move 20-30 ton of well presented timber with this in a day. The trick is to support the log just behind the balance point with the Pole arch, so that it lifts once the horse is in draught, and when the horse stops it drops again to aid braking. The Horse is Roy, a 5 year old Suffolk Punch wearing a Canadian Biothene harness with a Scandinavian adapter kit. A super combination for selective thinning!

Deserved everything he got and more! Horse logging is about co-operation between Man and Horse, not flogging it until it does what you demand. He was asking way too much of that little horse, and he was trying to tell them. Think they got the message in the end though!!

Think we need a "Show us your logging horses"'thread. Will start one tonight when I am at the PC!

Big thank you to Steve for doing this for us! Hopefully this can be of use to those interested in using horses themselves or hiring them in to help! Cheers, Matt

Will PM you