wyk

They are super easy to work on...uh

I got a couple of these bad bays, and they work rather well in my Dewalt products:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Dewalt-Replace-20V-4-0ah-Battery-DCB184-For-DCD795-DCD885-DCS331-DCS3391/302409000458?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

1 hour ago, Echo said:

Well he is a guy from Texas who does a lot of porting and has been doing it for a long time, has a lot of success with it, and is in my opinion the man to trust regarding what works and what does not.

I'm originally from Texas - Randy Evans, a good man and great saw porter, and someone I consider a good friend who has shared so much of his knowledge with me I've forgotten much of it, is from Tennessee.

http://mastermindsaws.com/

12 hours ago, Jon@CareFell said:

The .058 to .063 must make a difference as well but the .058 bar is going to be lighter for a given width.

The carriage on the 3/8 will be significantly heavier and have more resistance in the wood than 325. The 50 is significantly lighter, enough so it is what they use for chainsaw races, vs 63. But 58 and 63 are rather close.

I would think you might come away with a different result if you placed an 8 pin on the 462 and a 9 pin on the 461 for a 20 inch bar. They have a lot of torque as it is. What you want in a race is chain speed.

6 hours ago, Stubby said:

Yea I know Wes . I was just being a twatt .  I have used all cutters in all types over the years .

Sometimes I am posting and working at the same time, or maybe pain killing at the same time, or maybe just being grumpy at the same time. I can come across a bit dismissive, I imagine. I surely don't know everything. I just try to share what I do know as well as I can.

I wouldn't worry about the twat thing - I think if we don't do our share of twattage on the itnerwebs, the thing will self destruct. At least, that's how it acts. It's such a needy thing, the interwebs.

6 hours ago, Rough Hewn said:

I can vouch for Johns 560(SP).
It's a beast.
I've posted video before of it against a 461.

Don't doubt it. Next time try an 8 pin rim on the 462 and 461 if they are running 20 inch bars.

10 minutes ago, Stubby said:

Surely the more metal you have cutting the more wood you are cutting so the whole thing cancels itself out .  Small surface area cuts X amount of wood . Large surface are cuts X + amount of wood .  I think a dull chain is a dull chain  , beit Semi , round ground or square ground .

It's the amount of cuts you are making before the teeth lose their ability to cut. Like I said, I am speaking from experience. Get some chain and dirty wood, two loops of different chain, the same saw, and you will experience the same thing. I very rarely use full chisel for firewood - it is just a waste of time.

On 31/03/2019 at 10:43, Woodworks said:

Sorry to continue the derail but I still don't get why more metal keeps its edge longer. The leading edge of the cutter is the same on 3/8 just wider. I get there is more metal supporting it but don't get how this helps an edge last for longer. Do they take more wood off per cut so actually make fewer passes per inch of woodcut? My first saw that pulls a 3/8 is a 460 which does last a fair time between sharpens but I just put down to the fact it has the grunt to drag a slightly dull.

 

Not doubting that 3/8 works just trying to understand why.

 All chainsaw chain is 'slightly dull'. But more on that laters...

The less metal you have behind the chisel or the tip, the sooner it becomes dull when you are scraping wood with it. It wears, bends, dulls, hits nails etc. A very easy way to test it is get a loop of full chisel chain, and then get a loop of semi chisel. The semi chisel has more metal doing the cutting. Or do an NK/LoPro loop of 325 vs full kerf 325. Now go and get a long bar with 3/8 semi chisel on it and one with 404 semi chisel - the 404 will cut longer before it needs resharpening. It has less teeth over all, but the teeth have much more metal behind them.  Semi Chisel 404 lasts for freaking ever before you start to feel it need a sharpening compared to 3/8. Not the smoothest cutting, tho. But this stuff is always a compromise. Much of it is because it uses a large amount of the cutter to scrape vs a chisel bit, and also has a much larger surface that can take damage from the wood and it's impurities before it becomes inefficient. Another good example is chainsaw milling - you would have to be insane to use full chisel chain for it. You use full chipper to scrape out the wood against the grain, and because it lasts much, much longer doing it, even in 325 or LP.

The edge of metal wears the same when exposed to the same wood(assuming the same metal) - so the more metal you have on the cutter, the slower the edge wears. I have seen a lot of peoples chainsaws in my lifetime, and very few can put a razors edge on them. Most cutting is done with a 'slightly dull' cutter - and the more metal there is up there, the more cutting a dull(ish) cutter can do before it goes blunt.  After all - a chainsaw is not cutting wood - it is chipping/scraping the wood out. Think more like a wood carvers chisel vs a razor. It doesn't need to be razor sharp unless you are doing detail work. It just needs to drag wood out. But it also won't work when it's blunted. More metal means less blunting.

It might not mean a huge amount if you cut very clean wood, but you sure as hell notice it when you are making firewood.

On 26/03/2019 at 08:03, Jon@CareFell said:

As an aside.

Put my ported 560 with 24” bar up against a new but bedded in 462 with 20” bar last week in 20” wood ....

The 560 walked away from the 462.

Was that 560 pulling 325 or 3/8? The saw is either new or bedded in? Being both is sort of difficult It takes 10 tanks+ to bed in the rings and loosen up the crank. I'm also impressed the 560 can oil a 24 inch bar ported.

On the Dolmars, most of them the cat can be removed simply by undoing three bolts.

1 hour ago, Cut4fun said:

I was looking at one of my Oregon bars with that cut at back and wondered if that tail mount cut would help those longer sugi bars breaking and cracking.  

You might be onto something to save folks bars. 

 

 

Stihl bars are differentially treated, but can be rather hard. I have had many chip along the railing. Oregon bars are differentially heat treated as well, but they also use a 4000 series of steel that is tougher, if less hard(more rail wear, less brittle). Sugi, Tsumu, and Stihl have more vanadium and a few other elements that promote harder(and more expensive) steel. I don't think Sugi or Tsumura do a differential treatment. I've seen Stihl bars break in half where some Oregon bars would simply bend. As with all things - it's all in the compromise.

So, I completely forgot to dig up this footage and post it as my original review. I only just found it on my computer. Very dark out, so the video went a bit poor on me. But this gives you an idea what the saws are about. Wood is very dry oak or maybe Spanish Sweet Chestnut. 390 is wearing a 15" 325NK bar and the 361 has a 15" 3/8 LoPro set up. Both have had their cats removed. These are their first cuts out of the box and first tuning. The 361 still ended up a bit rich, but she pulls strong, as did the 390. If the 361 sounds louder, that's because it is. I gutted the muffler, but I also drilled through the baffle, and then opened up the external cover to match the bolt on exhaust flange/cover thing. So, basically, it is nearly a straight through exhaust. And it sounds like it.

It's mostly witchcraft.

Now you'll have to pardon me. I'm meant to be dragging the MIL off to lunch in a bit.

Just now, Woodworks said:

So why less sharpening? Presumably, the quality of 0.325 and 3/8 are the same so what makes them last longer?

The more metal ya have, the more cutting it can do before it starts to stop. Sort of like 3/8 VS 404, 404 VS 1/2 VS 3/4 etc etc. Also, you'll never throw a 3/8 standard chain on a 50cc saw. Whereas I have had my ported 241 tear two 3/8LoPro chains in half so far. I run standard 325 on it most the time, tho.

8 hours ago, Cut4fun said:

So you guys breaking the sugi LW bars over there? 

 

Been seeing some posted over the years and now a video. 

 

I like the Tsu bars myself.  Dealer told me he sees way less Tsu breaking compared to what he called common problem with the sugi LW bars.

I've only seen breaks on the longer(30"+) bars used in logging. They are very hard from the factory, and this might make them a bit too brittle for proper manhandling is my guess.

48 minutes ago, Woodworks said:

Out of interest what are the pros and cons of using the larger 3/8  chain on a small saw? 

You'll need a saw with the chuff to pull it. Like sumfin maybe some mad American ported.

The benefits are longer lasting between sharpenings, more resistance to rocking, longer lasting chain reels. The bad is it's heavier, larger kerf, and people who use 3/8LoPro on a 60cc saw will turn their noses on the forums.

From what I have seen, it can oil up to a 33" bar, so you're good there. It all depends on what sort of cutting you do. If you man handle it a lot, bore cut often, and back bar it at the stump, you'll need to tailor it to those needs.

If one is so inclined, removing the cat prevents the handle issue. The baffle the cat is part of causes the exhaust to exit more out the side, and ti also heats up the exhaust as well. I haven't had an issue on my 390 yet with it, but I have also added another exit to relieve the pressure from the one side.

OK, I injured myself last week, so sort of didn't get around to sawing and photo-ing. But here's a few shots of what I brought back that need to be repaired. 044 is gonna just get a cleaning and timing advance. 241 needs a new carb, handle, and I am gonna gut the stratos on her to see if it makes a big difference - gonna swap it out for my Echo CS390 for the farm in the mean time. 281, which is now a 288xp, is getting new wiring.

On 15/03/2019 at 20:34, spudulike said:

Well try a 25:1 mix in your saw and let me know when this happens, has anyone seen it actually be the route cause of a seize, what about WYKs millers, surely his 16:1 man must get through a saw per week!!!

I know what you are saying but the heat is caused by too much air and not oil, both will have different effects on combustion!

OK, so no one reads owners manuals. I know...I'm old and have nothing better to do when I am popping Ibuprofen during my extended lunch breaks. But hear me out:

Open up your Husqvarna owner's manuals and flip to the page about mix. It states there clearly to use a mix of 50:1. If it is not Husky brand oil, you are to use 33:1(this includes other full synths) or even _25:1_. Why would a company state in their own literature(owner's manual, no less) you should use more oil in the mix if it is different from one they've tested and approved other than the fact that maybe they are pushing the limits of lubrication at 50:1? Yes, they do want to sell their own oil, but that likely doesn't mean they also want you to destroy your saw if you don't.  And they are stating this right in their own literature. They aren't suggestion 25:1 because it will lean out the saw and destroy it. The manufacture themselves are suggesting it to prevent premature wear and promote proper lubrication because there are so, so, so many choices in oil out there, and so very little knowledge about their usage.

Go to page 25 of the 365,372 operator's manual for the reference:  http://www.husqvarna.com/ddoc/HUSO/HUSO2004_EUenAPen/HUSO2004_EUenAPen__1140206-26.pdf

If HUSQVARNA two-stroke oil is not available, you may use another two-stroke oil of good quality that is intended for air cooled engines. Contact your dealer when selecting an oil. Mixing ratio 1:33 (3%)-1:25 (4%)

Guess I'll throw in here:

MS241 ported by WYK

Echo 361WES cat deleted

Echo 390ESX cat deleted

Stihl 044 10mm(I use this for most work) , 391, 250, 181, 170

Husqvarna 288xp mildly massaged by myself

Most with Sugi or Tsumura light bars

I might take a family pic tomorrow while I'm in Waterford.

If not battery, what corded saws would you folks suggest? I was looking at the battery ones, and what they ask for the saw at the start and then the batteries afterwards, has turned me off of them rather quickly. I want to get in to doing more carving up in Wicklow in my back garden instead of having to go all the way back to the estate in Waterford I'm a forester of. Mebbe @shavey has the Makita versions in stock?

49 minutes ago, tree-fancier123 said:

I did read the Makita is a bit heavier than a 365, but had no idea either the Makita or Dolmar badge were electronic carbs? If they are electronic carbs I don't see that as a plus for the occasional user. You see plenty of old saws up for sale year 2002 etc, Do you think many Mtronics will last 20 years in the cold damp air of a shed?. Won't be much choice soon, other than refurbs way things are going.

What a life with a view like that, would drive me mad

Sorry, meant to say XT version - x torq. I'll see if I can edit it.

On 17/03/2019 at 09:57, openspaceman said:

Having mended and used a ms181c briefly now I wouldn't use it for logging, too small but ideal for coppice work and a bit of pruning.

It's a good little saw for small jobs. Ours is replaced with an Echo 360WES, which is significantly lighter and more powerful. The issue we had with our 181 was it just isn't very robust for firewood use. I'm curious to see how our 360 gets on after a few years. The 181 lasted 2 years.

On 17/03/2019 at 14:40, tree-fancier123 said:

I thought Stere also made a sensible suggestion (below).

Putting the Husky 365 and Makita EA7900P45E side by side (the specs are similar, the Makita is 200g heavier, 8cc more displacement and slightly (0.9kW) more powerful). I would prefer the Husky as spares would be easier . The best google prices for both are £550 on 18 inch, some of these internet stores though I would be wary of.  Radmore, FRJ etc established forestry suppliers won't be a problem

Personally would use my 441 for ringing up 20 to 30 inch dia as op states. I don't use Aspen, just start, open tank, tip out and rev till it stops to store. Been doing that with it since 2011, never had to put a carb kit in it.

 

In practice the Makita 7900 is significantly more powerful than even the 372, let alone the 365. It also costs quite a bit less from @shavey

Keep in mind the XT version is a bit more weight than this non XT Husky: