wyk

1 hour ago, Stubby said:

22 yards I think .

Exactly. We still use it in forestry stateside. We measure distances in chains often. It is often the measurement some folks use for clinometers as well.

Yay ported saws!

Also a 452s Shindaiwa at a good price.

She said.

1 hour ago, Rough Hewn said:

I think stihl made 5, 090's with 160cc (ish)
For racing and demos.
You can probably find on YouTube.

I took this image of one of them while at Madsens saw and supply in Centralia, Washington:

4 hours ago, wicklamulla said:

fair play to ya Wes.  I own tree Echo climbing saws but not one single ground saw.  I do like the look of the 390 and 501, 620 etc.   What irritates me is Echo sells  climbing saws with 'lumpy and aggressive' cutting gear which can make them a pig to use.  I bought a 280 TES and i hafta say it is quite frankly a horrible little saw which appears quite gutless as it was on 3/8ths which caused it to really struggle,  i converted it to 1/4 pitch and fitted a 0.43 bar and chain which helped so calm tings down.  I reckon a de-catted muffler and a re-tune is the way ta go. My Echo 2511, 280 & 360 climbing saws are all sporting 1/4 pitch 0.43 chain and bars. 

 

 

I haven't used the VXL chain on the 361 yet. I Imagine on a saw with a handle, it is much easier to control. On a top handled saw, I can see how it might be a hand full in stuff like beech and oak whilst up in the tree. I used Stihl picco chain on the 361. It cut fast and smooth on the 361. I ran the new 325 TXL on the CS390ESX. It flies right out of the box and is super smooth, much like the new 3/8 EXL chain. And like the EXL, it didn't stretch nearly as much as I expected.

We're sort of in a golden age for chains. A huge choice, with some good examples out there at good prices.

On 25/11/2018 at 18:54, spudulike said:

Yup, Echos are funny, they seem to always need the muffler modded and a bit of a carb tune and bingo...different saw. I guess it is because the Japanese seem to use CATs rather than strato type technology. People ask me what they are like and I always say, they seem a bit lightly made but seem relatively strong and typically.....well....JAPANESE!

One of the reasons I got them was that they weren't strato, nor were they electronic. Yeah, I had to do some work on them, but it is really minor stuff. And it is well worth it as these saws run strong. I don't feel the need to go and port the 390 just yet. It does the job. Being made in Japan is definitely a good thing. Though I think many of the smaller models in the US are made there in MAGA.

57 minutes ago, tree-fancier123 said:

just clocked this 362 on US ebay - they seem to think a narrow kerf chain makes the saw cut 40% faster - selling it marked up in price as a hotsaw , but no engine mods?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PILTZ-Stihl-MS362-Customised-CHAINSAW-24-inch-Cannon-/362476084794?_trksid=p2385738.m4383.l4275.c10

Piltz are great marketers, but not much else. You will end up spending less and get more for the same weight in a 462.

In use, there's not much between the two. I chose the 390 for it's weight and lack of electric carb.

During the first week, we had to cut a few oak planks and oak logs to length. I was impressed how the little ECHO's handled it.

I have recently had to replace an MS180 and an MS241CM on the estate I help manage the forests in Waterford, Ireland. The estate owner wanted something as light as possible and as easy to start to replace her 180. The 390ESX will mostly do small firewood and felling jobs and some carving as my own saw.  These are my initial impressions after a weeks use, mostly on firewood and small clean up duty.

I acquired both saws through RobD aka ChainsawBars.co.UK.

I have to admit that both saws had their cats removed first thing. I couldn't source a non cat exhaust for the 361 in time, so had to mod the existing exhaust. Mine was crimped too well to easily pull apart without cutting. So I simply opened up the top plate autopsy style and ground out the cat. On the 390esx, the seem was easy to pull free, and I managed to simply pop the cat right out and reseal. Both exhausts appear to be made from annealed 304 or 316 stainless similar to what STIHL currently use. It's no surprise really, Japan is an island and mild steel exhaust won't last very long.

I didn't get to weigh the 361, but it feels considerably lighter than the 390ESX, which felt lighter than the ms241.

The 390ESX is 10lbs 2.5 ounces on my kitchen scale. Yes, it fits. With the cat removed it is just a bit under 10 lbs. My MS241 is 10lbs 9 ounces.

Some folks complained about the exhaust on a 390 burning the brake arm. I never had this issue, and did check the arm often. I did read about it, though, and so bent the exhaust cover just a touch in hopes to prevent such an issue before reinstalling the exhaust.

I have also heard some folks say the ECHO are too shiny. I don't mind it if it's easier to find in the brush. And I like the looks and feel it is a quality product. Before Husky and STIHL started to go more of an industrial look, STIHL had a much more eye catching colour on their saws. Here's my 10mm 044 as an example. Most older STIHL's have faded since their manufacture, so that they look as dull as the new models.

The controls feel a bit small, but these are small saws. Especially feels small on the 361 since the clutch side fasteners appear to be 11mm VS the standard 13mm. I think they could have, and should have gone with standard bar nuts. It requires it's own spanner this way. The triggers and deadman's grips are fine, though. The 390ESX feels small over-all even compared to the MS241. I think the handle could feel a bit more robust on the 390ESX, but it doesn't appear flimsy. Maybe I am used to more rubberized handles.  I love the simple cut off switch metal toggle they each have; especially since this American is used to up being on. In fact, that's fooled the estate owner once. I had to explain it's a U.S./Nippon thing for switches to be up to be on.

Here's the couple with an MS390 in the foreground, atop a 288XP is the 361WES and behind the MS241 on the right is the 390ESX. Behind them lies my 044 and a couple of pole saws.

Now the important part - performance. Bearing in mind the cats are removed - which also removes a baffle as well. Another thing to consider is ECHO have used a highly tuned version of their CDi on their saws for decades. It hugely increases the timing advance in the mid range(maybe 8-10K), which is also how the ports are set up on these saws(to produce maximum mid range torque), and this is where the saws shine. The 361 is zippy, even when ran rich to break in. But it doesn't quite have the instant pick up the old ms200t had. But, then again, you have to mod even a new 201 to behave anything like the old 200. In which case one could easily do the same with the 361 and likely still come well out ahead on costs. Still, on the catless 361, I enjoyed limbing and even working the Norwegian saw horse with it. This thing pulls extremely well for a 36cc saw. It would make a great topper for a bucket or climber. The only issue I had was the small fluid openings and the small fuel tank. But this is the price you pay for such a tiny and light saw. Overall a delight to use, and a capable tool for it's category. Add in the price, and I couldn't resist picking one up.  In fact, I liked it so much I bought a 390ESX.

The 390ESX also enjoys the strong midrange the 361 had, just more of it. It has an electronic limiter(as did the 361), which I adjusted the H screw(with a D-shaped or PacMan tool) to just nudge up against it for break in(sounds like mid 13K). Running 325 NK, AKA, .325LP on a 15" SugiHara bar, it was very capable. Most folks have seen Rob's video of the 390ESX running 3/8LP chain. This thing seems to pull 325 just as well. I had no issues quickly cutting oak rounds with it, or snedding, or what have you.

It feels terrifically compact and easy to whip about while in use. And somehow is both light and 'solid' at the same time.  Add in the normal sized fluid caps, decent fuel range, and standard bar nuts, and I'm rather happy with it. I'll try and put up a long term review by summer.

Cheers, Y'all

Maybe Dawn doesn't want you cutting her trees.

If it's anything like California Redwood...

They can both be full of sap. You'd want a high output oiler and a large discharge clutch cover, and maybe skip chain, if you are going to be burying your bar deep into it. Sometimes it's nice and clean and dry, other times it's a terrible mess. Be lucky.

Coastal Redwood here(in California)

I'm waiting for the Tesla chainsaw.

You'll forgive the question as I don't have the saw before me at the moment. But is there no grease pip at the end of the clutch side crank shaft? I know the shaft on a 35cc saw must be tiny tho...

I dunno. I kinda like the Makita branding. I actually don't even mind the blue part. I am so used to seeing Home Depot specials from the states is likely why. But I do recall, back when 'Sawfun' and I were doing videos up in Oregon about saws since he had such an extensive collection, that the 7900 he had was slightly faster than my 046 was whilst pulling 28" bars in about the same diameter Douglas Fir. Upset me some since it also weighed less.

Looks a lot like my old McCulloch 710. Know anyone with an old D276 off their macs that you can try?

I'd loan ya mine but it's back in the States:

I think the d276 and the d176 may have combined into the modern d276 multi mount. I know the tail on the 276 is meant to be smaller than what ya see in the acres internet image. However, Danarm state their mount for that saw is an Oregon D276 or Windsor TMX. Good luck!

Makita have already started to go orange on their saws stateside, as well as some of their electrical products, too.

They were reluctant to go away from blue because that's their mark for so long. But they seem to be coming around to the fact a dark blue chainsaw is easily lost in the woods.

https://www.makitatools.com/products/details/EA7900PRZ1

If you have separate oil from the bar mount, it could be a D176(which is a multi mount bar nowadays, as is the 276).

Measure the width of your bar studs. Frontier also made a small saw that used an even smaller mount at one point, the A064, but that oiled through the bar mount.

http://www.acresinternet.com/cscc.nsf/14711d8004b6ea7c88256e0c0001ff32/be9970357dbcb17f88256e0e001f67e3?OpenDocument

I've ran rapeseed/canola oil straight from the shops for the better part of a decade in a variety of saws and conditions with no issues at all. Using other types of vegetable oils is asking for trouble, tho(mostly due to oxidation). I've had issues with some bio-oils as well. But I haven't tried bio oil in years. Hopefully they're better now.

https://www.preol.cz/data/blob/storage-application_pdf-20160920022538-1523-msds-rapeseed-oil-v2r2-260816-en.pdf

https://www.mobil.com/English-DK/Industrial/pds/GLXXChainsaw-Oil

https://www.fs.fed.us/eng/pubs/html/98511316/98511316.html

http://www.crojfe.com/r/i/stanovsky_83-90.pdf

I like both the grandberg and the oregon 12 volt to bring back rocked chains in a flash. CSB have the grandbergs.

On 29/10/2018 at 11:13, wyk said:

Part of the reason I decided against it is the shortage of bar options. And what bars there were available didn't last me very long at all. That ported 241 now runs a sugi laminated bar with 325 semi chisel all day long.

I should mention that NK, aka Low Pro 325 bars and chains are no longer difficult to come by like when I first rigged that B&C to my 241 several years prior, and much more affordable since I no longer have to import it from the states. ChainsawbarsUK have a lot of options. Just make sure your bar is thin enough to easily run the NK. Some bars are rather thick(like the Tsumura solid pro bars).  But maybe Rob has done some testing on the bars he carries. @RobD

2 hours ago, peds said:

Okay, so here's the thing dudes.

Prompted by the thread asking if anyone is in France (where I am now, for the next three weeks), I've just been looking for prices for 550xp and 346xp online, it seems there's a whole stack of 346xp still available brand new, if anyone is so inclined. With just a bit of searching, I've found 346xp for 589 euro, 599 euro, 619 euro, that kind of thing, which works out at around 520 to 540 sterling. 550xp mostly go for around 615 sterling, with one ballsy outfit asking for 700. In Ireland (where I will be in three weeks time), a 550xp will set you back around 625 sterling.

But FR Jones (first hit, not bothered looking for any other prices, does anyone know of any cheaper off the top of their heads?) are selling 550xp for just 465 sterling.

I've been reading what a load of other bods on other forums (there are others?!) have to say about the differences between the two saws, and it seems that although both are great tools, the people who prefer the 346xp seem to do so only out of a sense of nostalgia, or if they actively don't like the new-fangled electronic side of the saw, and it's only when they've been ported that they are a demonstrably better bit of kit. Off the shelf, people tend to think that they are effectively the same saw... just that one has fewer bells and whistles.

 

I can get a £520 346xp delivered straight to my door in a few days time, whereas a £465 550xp won't be with me until mid-January (don't ask why). Discounting the time difference, why should I pay fifty quid more for a saw that doesn't have that fancy new computer? Why should I pay more to keep alive your memories of a favourite saw from the past?

 

(I mean that in the nicest way possible, of course, I'm genuinely curious.)

After my experiences with flippy caps and MTronic,  I would pay extra to not have them. Fortunately, that doesn't have to be the case...for now. Even the 462 is supposedly coming without MTronic as an option. I never had a flippy cap or catastrophic carb failure in the field until Stihl decided I needed those things in my life. To each their own.

My first saw was a Husqvarna 268xp, used as a sawyer when I was working for the forestry service fighting fires in California. It never failed me even if the trees were on fire. She's holding down the floor of a friends garage back in Cali:

The saw I miss the most is probably my Mac 800 or 046. Second and third saw.

If I knew then what I know now, I woulda got my current saw, a 10mm 044, and slapped a dual port muffler on it and called it a day. I even use it on small jobs since it weighs like a 60cc saw with a light bar on it, and use skip chain for bigger jobs:

For a little saw - the 346xp is tough to beat. But I have seen the recent Echo and Shindaiwa 45 and 50cc saws for good prices, and wouldn't shy away from them. RobD has a good deal on an Echo 501SX too.

17 hours ago, Rob D said:

As a thread derail - using the 91vxl on a 390XP milling worked really well - the additional power on a bigger saw got the chain pulling it's way really well down the grain even though the chain angle was the usual 30 degrees.. but it seems a lot of folk have said this chain is way too aggresive for smaller saws.

I agree. I think the small mass of some saws makes the vibration and the grabbyness more noticeable. I didn't have issues running it on a 241. It's a bit frustrating because the standard top plate VX chain is excellent.

18 hours ago, carlos said:

the echo 501sx is a good saw if you prefer something without modern autotune, that said we have a few autotune saws at work and havent had many problems with them really.

Underrated saw. A previous Shindaiwa brand, and current Shindaiwa make under the Echo brand. It has about the same power as a 346(very similar cylinder construction), and weighs a further half a pound less than the featherweight Husky. Often supplied with a high quality Tsumura bar.