Squaredy

10 hours ago, sandspider said:

Squaredy, were the cups at westonbirt no good? Industrial recycling only?

I didn't get to Westonbirt on Thursday, although I went past I didn't have the time.  I went to the Forestry Commission hardwood auction at Cirencester but had to race back afterwards.  I will try and find out, but I suspect that like the RSPB it is PLA based vegware.

7 minutes ago, openspaceman said:

Actually for the last two months I have reverted to leaf tea.

I also have reverted to leaf tea and tea pot, though I believe some tea bags are plastic free.  

9 minutes ago, scbk said:

I wonder if the best disposable cups for the environment would be the cheapest "normal" paper cups (that have the plastic lining) and then getting them put into separate bin so you can burn them.

Ok, you'll be burning plastic, but a tiny amount, and if they go on a stove, you're getting some use out of it.

 

And the impact of making the cups is probably a hell of a lot lower than the "eco friendly" versions.

I see where you are coming from but I just cannot bring myself to keep buying plastic products where there is any sort of choice.  Do you know that we are all breathing in plastic in our homes on a daily basis, and we have no real idea of the consequences?  Last time I bought cups for the coffee machine I bought 1000 so it is not just the odd one or two. 

Are you breathing plastic air at home? Here’s how microplastics are polluting our lungs

WWW.WEFORUM.ORG

---

Many of the plastic particles found in our bodies come not from drinking bottled water or eating polluted fish – but from the air we breathe, especially indoors. Here’s what to do...

10 hours ago, openspaceman said:

I see this but in your case is there any danger of people disposing of them improperly?

 

If not what problem do you have with landfill or incineration?

For the most part hopefully they will be binned when used, so you have a fair point, we could incinerate them and as they are plant based I guess this will be no more polluting than burning firewood.  So yes this might be an option.  

In a wider context, I am not totally impressed with PLA products (or Vegware) as the compostible claim is rather misleading.  But as long as the waste goes for incineration I guess it is OK.  Ironically this may not help us to meet EU targets as it is not recycling, so I don't think it will be encouraged by councils.

Update: I have been in contact with the RSPB who claim on their website to have eliminated plastic cups from their Bempton Cliffs Reserve Cafe.  The sad news is there seems to be nothing available at the moment,  The RSPB use PLA lined paper cups at Bempton Cliffs and then send them for landfill and incineration.  Yes that's right, they may as well have just stuck with plastic.  It seems the RSPB are guilty of a bit of greenwashing there.

So I hope Topchippyles' mate in Ebbw Vale can create a new product that solves this problem, as it seems it is still unresolved.  In fact I would go as far as to say the PLA lined cups could be a backward step if they are advertised as compostable; people may throw them out of their car window thinking they will quickly rot, or put them in their own home composters.

If I learn any more I will update this thread.  Meanwhile at my work I think we will have to provide china cups and hope they are mainly returned!

5 hours ago, topchippyles said:

Squaredy My mate owns and runs Transcend Packaging who are the makers of the new recyclable straws for mcdonalds,Lee also owns Fencing & Decking who have a few sites around south wales and he buys a fair bit of timber from me,Spoke with him last week and i think they are developing a new range of cups to,

Bit more info below 

Transcend Packaging

 

Ebbw Vale firm Transcend Packaging lands McDonald's deal ...

 

Thanks for that Les I missed your post until just now.  I will follow your link with great interest.

18 minutes ago, peter. said:

why not just use a regular pottery mug, you can use them many times over many years. mmm

Well it may come to this but it is a coin operated machine which random customers help themselves to without me or my staff getting involved.  Sometimes they get a coffee and then go for a walk in the forest.

Also it is in an unheated building and cold china cools drinks quickly.

51 minutes ago, Woodworks said:

This is one of the those counter intuitive things that may well be the case. The way there is far less carbon involved in making a plastic  bag than a paper one. 

 

I go to a cafe that uses compostable cups and have messaged them to find out what brand they use but they may well be the PLA ones

 

Any reason you cant sent them to the council recycling where they would get hot enough to break down?

 

If you put them in with council recycling they will be removed and sent to landfill or incineration just like traditional paper cups.

1 hour ago, spandit said:

I'd bet polystyrene cups are easier to recycle and use less energy to manufacture in the first place.

I don’t know about where you live but in my area polystyrene cannot be recycled.  I know areas which actually won’t recycle any plastic except bottles.  Manchester and Pembrokeshire for example.

3 minutes ago, sandspider said:

As I remember, they made a thing out of their cups being compostable in normal compost, not requiring the high temps of industrial set ups. I don't have the details though, so don't quote me on that...

I will look into it.  Not sure how, but then again I am heading that way tomorrow....maybe I will have to pop in and report back.

3 hours ago, sandspider said:

They have disposable cups at Westonbirt, made of some sort of vegetable polymer, which apparently will compost in normal compost bins...

I would be interested to learn more, but I suspect the vegetable polymer is PLA which takes years to break down unless it has exactly the right conditions.  Only when subjected to a highly specialised process and heated to 140 degrees centigrade will PLA biodegrade. 

So in reality they will all end up either incinerated or in landfill just like traditional paper/plastic cups.

4 minutes ago, neiln said:

Lelandii is actually pretty good firewood, denser than most softwoods. 

 

I find virtually nothing spits or pops if properly dry, the very occasional pop in my stove is so rare it always gets my attention, so I'd think all woods should work fine on open fires.... if properly dry!

It is also pretty good timber - totally under-rated.  I admit it is usually knotty, but durability similar to UK grown Western Red Cedar.

Maybe a bit of pschychology. 

Price the Larch higher than the hardwood.  And then when a customer asks for hardwood, pause and  say something like, "OK if you can only afford the hardwood, I guess it is better than nothing."

I have a coffee machine at my site for use of visitors and customers.  I used to buy paper cups for it, thinking they were environmentally friendly, but of course we now know they are nothing of the sort due to the plastic liner.

For practical reasons it is not really feasible to provide china cups as this would get so messy.  So are there any eco friendly disposable cups?

I thought I had found some like this:

Fiesta Green Compostable Hot Cups Single Wall 340ml / 12oz x 50 - ds059 - Buy Online at Nisbets

WWW.NISBETS.CO.UK

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Fiesta Green Compostable Hot Cups Single Wall 340ml / 12oz x 50 (ds059) & more from our Fiesta Green range at Nisbets.co.uk. Next day delivery on thousands of catering...

But it turns out that the plastic substitute (PLA) is only compostible in commercial composters.  I need something we can compost here on site at ambient temperatures.  Also if it is thrown out of a car window (I hope none of my customers would do that but you never know) it needs to naturally biodegrade within months not years.  

I have found nothing - anyone help?

The real solution is to get people buying softwood.  Maybe we should stop using the terms hardwood and softwood with customers, because all they hear is good and bad.  The point is the softwoods are so much easier (and therefore quicker and more economical) to dry.  And some of the softwoods are easily as good as most hardwoods.  Larch is fantastic.  Dries really easily and burns long and hot.  Not many hardwoods can match Larch overall.

I have had some success selling Larch firewood it has to be said.  I sometimes think we should say Larch is hard wood.  That would not be a lie - Larch is a hard wood.  It is just not a hardwood.

5 hours ago, david lawrence said:

are either both tory and labour tree planting promises remotely feasible ?

in terms of

land available

labour

supplies of planting stock preferably uk sourced

money   perhaps from magic money tree

or is it just more.................

Chances are it is just fulfilling the existing commitments to tree planting already made.  Not sure about the rest of the UK but last time I checked Wales was only meeting about 15% of it's own tree planting targets on public land.  So if they maybe get a bit closer to the targets already in place, perhaps they will indeed hit the new figures!

Don’t forget dust extraction.  A 5 hp extractor may be needed so factor this in also.  A large thicknesser is hopeless without good extraction.

4 hours ago, Treerover said:

Is there any truth that the butress/root area on a Walnut is the most valuable part? I was told this many moons ago when I first started out...gun stocks, Jaguar dash boards etc all made out of this mythical subterranean woody gold !!!!
I've always struggled with the concept but I climb them and don't know anything about milling etc

Jaguar Dashboards are indeed burr walnut and it is imported from California.  Why we don't try growing Walnut as a crop in the UK I can't imagine, but some other countries certainly do.

26 minutes ago, trigger_andy said:

Hey,

I know Ive asked this before but I cant find anything looking back through the threads.  Ive someone wanting some Oak Milled and Ive said £30 an hour to him and then never spoke to him again for a couple of months. Anyway, he called back and still wants me out to Mill this Oak. So I was really looking back again to see what I was recommended to charge. I'll stay at £30 an hour as thats what I told him, but as mentioned by someone before I'll tell him its a full day at £30 an hour. But there was mention of Blades and fair usage etc. So before I message him back any advice would be appreciated. 

 

Cheers. 

Just make sure to charge extra for any damage caused by stones or nails etc.  So if you hit no nails just charge him the hourly rate, but if you blunt three extra blades due to nails charge for sharpening or replacing those blades on top of the hourly rate.  You don't need to charge him for the time it will waste as you are charging by the hour anyway.  Also of course if you are travelling more than half an hour or so maybe charge for mileage.

Most important thing is to make sure he understands all this up front!

24 minutes ago, trigger_andy said:

 Thats a really good price!

 

We haven't seen the quality yet!  I agree £30 per cubic foot plus VAT sounds good for brown Oak but it may or may not be good quality....  Or it may not be all brown.  A lot of brown Oak boards are only brown at one end.

30 minutes ago, Adam M said:

The tree is also a serious Health and Safety risk, the dangers posed by the fallen needles of 
Chilean Pine/Monkey Puzzle trees - a matter highlighted by Swansea Council, who 
subsequently employed an expert, Andy Sherlock, who has over 22 years experience 
(Arboricultural Consultant), who "likened the effect of the needles to being pricked by a 
hypodermic syringe" and thus who supported felling. ‘Every effort must be made to prevent 
children coming into contact with these potentially, equally sharp needles, and warned they 
pose a probable risk of serious injury to children.”

 

Sweep them up.

The local authority should make sure there are no Oak trees in their area, they are highly dangerous - the acorn is the perfect size for children to choke on.  Get them all cut down quick before a child dies.  Whilst they are at it they should also make sure any birds are quickly removed as bird faeces can spread all sorts of disease.  Kill all the birds now. 

In fact maybe we should ban children from going outside - it is a dangerous place you know.

13 hours ago, markieg31 said:

Have they ever thought that permemant pasture also sequesters carbon. Infact i think that you can do more with an extensive grazing system carbon wise.

Permanent pasture must be grazed and this is of course a problem, as the grazing animals especially if cows or sheep emit large amounts of greenhouse gas.  But apparently if done in the right way the world's vast grasslands can be well managed with grazing, and then sequester carbon on a huge scale.

2 minutes ago, AHPP said:

Who is the landowner?

The landowner is Newport City Homes.  They are the local housing association. 

Fly tipping is I assume also a police matter, but are they really going to investigate?

1 minute ago, openspaceman said:

Not only embarrassing, I wouldn't want my kids breathing in the smoke from that foam

Well yes indeed.  It is in the middle of a large housing estate, so plenty of kids will be breathing it in.

I reported it to the landowner but realistically what can they do?  If it is not clear who dumped the rubbish (and I assume it is several people).  Hopefully it will be removed before it is set light to but I doubt it.

Apparently in some areas when it is building a bonfire for fireworks night.  Is it just me who finds this embarrassing and disgusting?