Big J

Much of the douglas is over 40m tall. It's well overdue a thin and we're programming in a series of 2-3 thins at 7 year spacings, aiming to clearfell what'll be then 50m trees with the view to producing some really high quality long length douglas for timber framing. Lots of potential there

Fair enough, but I have been self employed for almost 10 years, ploughing everything into that and having spent around £170,000 in housing and premises rent in that time. The wish to get away from rentals and into something suitable that we own isn't unreasonable.

That's great to hear. The woodland I mentioned is a lovely mix of douglas and sitka (both really needing thinning) combined with some completely mixed softwood/broadleaf areas and then a really interesting pocket of alder coppice under oak and ash standard. It'll be lovely once we're finished.

Yes and no. I'll be in a position to buy a bit of land before the end of the year, but I had to spend the money on the kit to land the work. The financed and outright owned kit doesn't phase me. It's a necessary evil.

I think that's a bit of a negative view to take on it. I use the example of a woodland we're working in in October. 22 acres owned by one family from a small village. He lets anyone from the village walk around and use it, and it's completely unblighted by litter or dog poo.

They are very nice people, but just have a different mentality towards land usage to me. I have a practical approach as regards land usage in the UK. We're not an especially large country and I feel that land needs to be used productively, whether thats for food, timber or other raw material production. Productive use of productive land would leave plenty of marginal land for rewilding, and certainly in terms of forestry, an ecologically valuable woodland can be an economically valuable woodland too. Personally, I would never constrain myself with stewardship grants if I had land, as it would hamstring me in so many ways that I'm sure that I'd feel that having my own farm was a burden. One thing I do feel I'd try to do (if I was lucky enough to end up with a few acres) is to have whatever woodland I owned open to the community (I draw that distinction between community and public - people from my village/locality versus from everywhere). Open access, as it's practiced in Scotland is a bit of a nightmare when it comes to land management, but I'm finding that the endless "Private land, keep out" signs down here are too far in the other direction. Responsible access as opposed to universal access, if that makes sense.

I think the main issue would be: "it is located within or adjacent to existing groups of buildings." This would be unlikely to be the case for us. If there are existing buildings, then you'd have either a barn (convertable under Class Q) or a house. In either of those cases, PP for another barn wouldn't be too painful to obtain. In an ideal world, I'd be looking for 2-10 acres on the edge of a village in order to use 1-2 acres of it for a house, barns, workshop and garden, and then I'd plant the remainder as woodland. I don't really want to be in the middle of nowhere as it's a long walk to the pub, but equally being right in a village wouldn't be fair on other residents as tractors and other machines aren't quiet.

I do agree, and the subsidy aspect of farming isn't something I agree with. I'm not every personally had a grant for anything though I expect that we'll apply for one to help with the cost of a harvester next year. If you can't beat them... I don't want to get drawn into an EU discussion with regards to this, as land management, equality and housing is something the UK has much room for improvement with, and isn't something where the blame can be squared at anyone, but for successive government's mismanagement and poor policy. However, it's worth noting that the average farm is profitable to the tune of around £28500, of which over £24000 is subsidy. This seems wrong to me, and shouldn't be allowed to happen.

A lovely forestry road that we installed last week. I don't go building narrow lanes! This one is wide enough to comfortably accommodate a 10ft wide forwarder! ?

I agree that it needs to be regulated and reformed. Having AOCs granted only on the basis of keeping livestock is nonsense. That is only a small part of rural land management and shouldn't have the monopoly on new building. Anyone working within the rural economy should have the right to suitable, affordable housing and business premises, not just those that keep animals. I think phasing out the subsidies would be a great idea. The farm to the back of the site where we are presently working is run by a lovely couple whose method statement (as quoted) is "we're paid not to farm". So 180 acres in total, 20 of which is non-production woodland. They are on all sorts of countryside stewardship grants and as best I can tell have a small number of cows and earn the vast bulk of their income from the subsidies. There is some very pretty meadow, but it seems to me like a massively wasteful use of land as it doesn't actually produce anything and if environmental diversity was their goal, there are better things they could do (establish more woodland, establish wetland etc). Either way, subsidy reduction and eventual elimination is something I'd support.

Yeah yeah! ? I don't object (in principle) to some people owning a lot of land, but I object to none of that land being made available to people of lesser means. With more than 2.5 acres per man, woman and child in Devon, we're not short of the stuff. Nicola Sturgeon has often talked about land redistribution in Scotland (which has the most unequal land ownership in Europe, with fewer than 500 people owning half of all the land) and whilst I don't agree with land grabs, it's worth remembering that the ownership of the land is based on acquisition practices that would be regarded as abhorent now (the clearances, for example).

I guess you'd have to cluster new builds so that it brings down the overall costs. If plots were developed cooperatively, between say half a dozen families, then many of the costs go down. I'd love to see a situation where new house building isn't seen as a bad thing, but rather something that is welcomed. I'm not just talking about adding the housing stock in order to increase overall capacity, but as a direct replacement for many of our older, environmentally awful houses. When you compare an intelligently designed and carefully constructed new build (that requires a medium sized candle to heat it) to a draughty old cottage where a constantly burning fire is never quite enough, a strong case is made for replacement. That's another topic entirely though!

Agreed. Making provision for people to build their own houses sustainably should be the central tenet of planning, rather than pandering to the mass developers. As everyone knows, I'm a massive Germany fanboy, but I can only reflect on what I know. It's common practice for councils to have a Neubaugebiet (new building area) in villages and towns. Land is prepared, road and services go in, plots divided up at 400-1000 square metres, sold for a reasonable price. Simples. Everyone has space to breath, noone is mortgaged up to the hilt unless they build something outrageous and people can build a house that is suited to them, rather than suited to a developers programme of profit maximisation. I'm on my bloody soapbox again - see what you did?! Example plot, close to my uncles: # # # Top Grundstück- ebenerdig # # # Grundstück Morbach-Hoxel (2N7394S) WWW.IMMOWELT.DE 1071 m² Grundstück in Morbach, Hunsrück zum Kauf. # # # Top Grundstück- ebenerdig # # #. Angeboten von VR-Bank Hunsrück-Mosel eG Immobilienabteilung, - -. £34k, quarter of an acre, level, fulled serviced. Example plot, close to us here in Devon: Plot with PP for sale in Whimple | Plotfinder WWW.PLOTFINDER.NET An excellent individual building plot of approx 0.22 acres with planning consent granted for a superb, single architect designed dwelling. Just under 1/4 acre, level, no mention of services, £250k

I agree. It's an almost unfixable situation, with the inevitable consequence of someone having to take a hit on the value of what they have. Devon is, I'd say, still relatively cheap for the south of the UK and the market value of houses is often well in excess of double the material value. This is why house developers operate on an almost 50% margin. With that disparity in values, the first time buyer comes off worst, with developers, banks and to a lesser extent, existing home owners benefitting. Friends of ours had to work very hard over the past year winning over the Parish council in the village they live in near Honiton. They bought a large property, with lots of potential and are pursuing an ambitious sustainable rural business model, including a farm shop, cafe, guided tours and activity days in their vineyard and orchard, glamping and many other things. It'll bring lots of tourist money into the village, employing local people and will be a great thing. The Parish council seem to be onboard, and planning is OK too, but it's taken a lot of work.

True enough - silly money there! I have had a few conversations with exasperated landowners over the past year and the levels of NIMBYism are in parts staggering. A woodland shack (no larger than 3x4m) was objected to by a neighbouring woodland owner as it wasn't in keeping with the woodland. A track installed (and a very lovely one too) at the bottom of a steeply sloping field was objected to by an anonymous member of the public who reported the farmer to the CAP payment folk for no clearly determinable reason. The field was so steep that it would have only been comfortable to walk (and there was a permitted footpath there, no right of way) if one of your legs was 6 inches longer than the other. Live and let live I say, within reason.

Thanks Conor. I was pretty nervous, especially as you get all of two seconds notice as to when you're on. You just listen in on the phone (I was on a bluetooth headset so I could hear better), with one of the producers checking a few minutes before that you're still there and that the sound quality is OK. And then they just say your name and you're on... The aforementioned £650k house was a fairly new chalet style 4 bed. Spacious for a 4 bed, but cheap construction. 3 acres of land, some outbuildings and 1/2 a mile outside Tiverton. 4 bed houses in villages generally start at about £400k, but that's with scarcely enough parking for two cars, let alone vans and trailers. Minimal gardens too. £500k is about the start point for houses with sufficient land to construct a barn large enough to house a few machines. Fair point, and I always love any debate that starts with the term "devil's advocate"! The working in Scotland plan was only ever meant to be transitional, whilst I built up contacts and work down here. That happened much more quickly than expected, so I only ever went back once for work. We moved here because my brother is 15 minutes away (as opposed to 8-10hrs), my wife's extended family is around Taunton (30 minutes away) and it's much easier and closer for my mum and Kathryn's parents to visit. The kids see so much more of their family now, which isn't something they've regularly had. The climate makes for a much more pleasant lifestyle, with indirect benefits, in that I feel that people are more sociable and better connected because of the regular chances to see each other at outdoor events and shindigs throughout summer. My wife has remarked that she's made more friends through school and the nursery in a few short months than she did in 4 years of having children near Edinburgh. I appreciate that Devon (especially this part) is quite expensive, but Edinburgh and the surrounding area is hardly any better. True, elsewhere in Scotland or the North of the UK would have been cheaper, but it is (in my opinion) a pretty miserable existence if you move somewhere simply because the housing is cheap. Schooling is certainly a consideration, but it has a fairly minimal effect on the house prices in this area. True, my daughter is in a primary school that feeds a very good secondary school, but the desire to move into that area (which is about 150 square kilometres) is more so that we don't disrupt her schooling. I moved schools a few times as a child and it was pretty awful. As I've said before, the issue isn't lack of land, it's planning. Why permit millionaire incomers (I use that term non-pejoratively) to purchase barns to convert to swanky countryside pads but prohibit rural businesses from self building modest accommodation and premises in order to more effecienty run a sustainable business in the area? I'm not saying that out of a sense of entitlement, more to simply highlight that planning seeking to meet subjective demand, rather than objective need.

Very sorry to hear that. Pancreatic cancer is brutal, and 54 is no age to go. My wife lost her uncle earlier this year at the same age to colon cancer. Thoughts with family and friends

But a willingness to pay can only be supported my a means to pay. A means to pay an ever increasing amount is a direct result of the Bank's willingness to lend ever increasing quantities of money that doesn't actually exist...... The height that they are now, they're already half way there!

Two girls, 2 and 5 years old. Alice and Hanna

Quite possibly, but no income to support it and miles from family and friends. It's committing yourself to a lifetime to servitude, having that stress of having to work continuously (and some might argue, needlessly) to fund a bank loan for something that isn't materially worth the asking price. God only knows what it'll be like for my children!

The low rates are all well and good if you've already got the money to put a hefty deposit into a house, but getting started is the tricky think. We're now a bit older than the average first time buyer, but that is because we choose to invest in our business rather than a house (though that's not entirely relevant to this discussion). Anyway, if we want to get a reasonable sized family house with a bit of outdoor space and some ag buildings, we're easily north of £500k. As aforementioned, the house on the other side of the hill is £650k (I can post the link to the listing) and it's nothing special. On that house, we'd need to find a £65k deposit as a minimum and then a mortgage of £585k is going to require a combined pretax income of almost £120k to qualify. It's just not feasible. The ultimate frustration is that the construction cost of a house and barns like that (but far better built) is less than half of the asking price, and 3 acres of not entirely flat pasture is only about £20k around here. My point is that the massive inflation in the property market over the past 25 years has been on the basis of lower and lower interest rates, which have artificially inflated the price of property without there being an actual increase in the material value of the houses in question. Our parent's generation are sitting happily on mortgages bought and paid for and houses worth many times more (adjusted for inflation) than what they paid for them, and us first time buyers have a hard time getting on the ladder. I'm not moaning, just trying to engage in meaningful discussion.

Many thanks! ? Mr Edmonds beat you to it on starting a thread about my new found fame. Suffice to say, I've had my chain firmly pulled: ?

Haha! Mentioning my wife being an architect was pertinent to the topic in question! Quite nerve racking to be honest, and I wonder how many folk have contributed to the programme over the years whilst sat in a forwarder. What serves to reinforce my point (I feel) is that from my high vantage point in the valley, almost all the land I could see is owned by about 6 people, and provision for people like us trying to find rural property from which to run a business and in which to live is almost non existent. There is a nice enough 4 bed house over the hill with small outbuildings and 3 acres of land, but that's £650k. Loopy money!

One of my machines that I need to tow to site puts me just over 3000kg, and that's before there is anything else in the trailer. Safer just to have that 3500kg capacity so that there is a safety margin. I don't think that new vehicle ownership is any more expensive than used vehicle ownership, once you factor in repairs and downtime (lost time at work). I'd generally, personally have a newer vehicle and enjoy those benefits than have something older where you're never sure if and when it's next going to break down. For instance, my 4x4 Sprinter is presently in with a Mercedes specialist for a new intake manifold and wheel speed sensor, and including the diagnostics (which have to be done by a Merc specialist or Mercedes, due to the software) it's costing me just the wrong side of £1000 including VAT. That's 2 months of finance payments on a new truck. Not a great fan of the Landcruiser commercials. Very basic and a lot of money too.

I did think that this morning as it happens. I think that this might be the most sensible option, though I don't think 45p a mile would cover the cost of running a V10 Touareg. I've always been plagued by this kind of indecision as regards vehicles. I love driving, and really enjoy driving different vehicles. Given the unattainable list of requirements I have for a vehicle, it's no wonder I'm swithering between about 67 different trucks! ? Easily and quickly uprated by SV Tech to 3500kg/3500kg for a total 7000kg GTW Not a bloody chance. Considering that they are unpowered, hideously uncomfortable, unreliable and 40 years out of date, I'd rather use my Valtra for commuting. It's genuinely more comfortable and with a top speed of 23mph, not much slower! No. 6ft 8" + Defender ownership = a serious osteopathy habit