Big J

It's remarkably pale. I'd want to see a couple of more boards into the log to give a firmer answer.

Without any intention of trying to sound patronising, I'm fantastically glad that you came to that conclusion and the very fact that you decided to do all that research prior to indoctrinating your son gives me hope for the billions of people that blindly follow their faith around the world. My mother in law is a fairly committed Christian and it's taken me years to bring up the question of her faith (for fear of offending her) but I did earlier in the year. I was amazed how well she deflected the questions!

Eh?

I'd suggest that even if killers do not themselves believe in the religions they claim to represent, the fact that the religion gives them an excuse is reason enough to despise it. I'm too tired to be eloquent on the matter, but put simply, if given the option of adhering to a belief structure that is rigorously challenged on a daily basis, and based on sound and proven intellectual principles (science) or a belief structure with not one piece of even circumstantial evidence (religion), I know which one I'd chose. A related piece of personal experience that might perhaps go some way to explain the stronger beliefs of the more religiously inclined, but as a kid I had reasonably serious epilepsy. I was lucky enough to grow out of it by the time I was 14, but I do remember some of my more serious seizures in the third person. That is to say, I remember them, quite vividly but watching myself rather than looking out. Now given that an epileptic seizure is basically a massive electrical malfunction of the brain and that it caused some top notch hallucinations, it's not a stretch to suggest that similar physical ailments have spawned all sorts of stories of the super natural through time. I just regard is as a massive and dramatic brain fart, and I'm bloody glad not to have them anymore.

Fair point Timon. I have a very hard time being diplomatic regading religion given the vast destruction it causes on a global scale, as well as the huge suffering for millions of individuals around the world.

Accepting that modern science is indeed a belief system, I would rather put my faith in a peer reviewed and constantly challenged and contested structure of belief than a dogmatic doctrine that not only seeks to perpetuate beliefs that are patently wrong, but also stands against progress of every kind. I strongly believe that children having religion forced upon them is a form of child abuse. It has been proven that religious children have a poorer ability to distinguish between make believe and what is real. Regarding Palestine, I do not condone the actions you describe, but you have to understand it within the context of an oppressed people lashing out in whatever way they feel they can against an ever victorious, gar better equipped and funded oppressor. I don't think any of us would know how we would react until we were subjected to the day to day humiliation that the Palestinians endure.

So you are going to object to my post on account of it being personally offensive, but not explain why you do not think that religion is nonsense? To tie it back to the original thread, religion plays a huge part in the US election, so I think the point is valid.

Explain why.

Eloquently put, and I hope that you can see that my simplistic remark relating to the dissolution of Israel was made with my tongue firmly in my cheek. The solution is a complicated one, but I do believe that no solution will ever be reached until Israel stops breaking international law and perhaps even if it is accepted that whilst Israel does exist, it's creation would never have occurred in the 21st century. Regarding religion, I have no issue with continually highlighting the fact that it is nonsense. Like the belief in the world being flat, it is an antiquated and scientifically baseless belief that dearly hope I'll see the decline of in my lifetime.

For it to be considered racist, I would think that I'd need to be disparaging Judaism over all other religions. As it is, I regard all faiths equally disdainfully!

I like your use of the term "State of Israel". Using it like it should actually exist! Israel exists because of the misplaced religious concept that an ethnic group of people have a 2000 year old claim on a crappy bit of middle eastern desert. Given that religion is nonsense, and any religion that requires you to amputate bits of your willy doubly so, I think we can all agree that we should just give Israel back to the Palestinians.

I disagree. As Richard says, read the Europe In/Out thread.

Outstanding post Alec.

Agreed. I think it is more productive to look at the causes of the present social situation in the UK in a broader context. There is fundamentally a (sub?) culture in the UK where hard work is not valued amongst many. Couple this with a long history of the UK making use of immigrant labour (from the Commonwealth initially, especially important in post war reconstruction) and you have the present situation. Give employers the choice of hard working eastern Europeans at £8 an hour versus slacking, idle Brits, every employer is going to choose the Eastern European. Closing the door to such labour will not improve things here though. We need to address the root cause of the problem, rather than treating the symptoms. We need apprenticeships, more vocational training on the whole, a contraction of the welfare state and a fundamental change in the social mindset to attempt to instill a sense that you are (at least) mostly responsible for your own situation. If the UK born labour market was internationally competitive, we wouldn't have the number of immigrants that we have.

Outstanding. Great idea with the main benefits being: * It will transport itself anywhere * The height of the table adjusts according to the user and the size of the ring. Only thing I'd do is put a larger table on. So when are you putting them into production!?

I admire your optimism, but his track record suggests otherwise. His 6 bankruptcies don't bode well for the public finances. I'm just looking forward to him meeting Francois Hollande (had stated Trump made him retch). I will admit to a certain degree of perverse curiosity, but I do feel like we're now watching the moments before a terrible train crash in slow motion. You know it's coming and you're bracing for the inevitable.

I'm not sure what is more depressing - the 59 million people who voted for Trump or the 110 million people who couldn't be arsed to vote to keep him out.

I had someone call yesterday and specifically request what he had last year, which was sitka spruce. Factoring in the increased production rate and the reduced wear on the machine, has anyone calculated the difference in production cost (of the process only, not the raw material) differences between hard and soft wood?

I reckon one of the main impediments to firewood use becoming mainstream and affordable (at present, retailed firewood is a luxury for most) is the customer's belief that softwood is not fit for burning. Whilst England may have fairly large stands of hardwood woodland, Scotland does not. We have sitka and larch, and a lot of it. The things that work in softwood's favour are: * Lower purchase cost * Quicker drying time * Much quicker processing * Wider availability of supply * Reasonably homogenised product OK, softwood is slightly last calorie dense, but that is easily offset by all of the above savings, which can in part be passed onto the customer. I personally hate burning only hardwood, and would ideally burn 75/25% softwood hardwood. The ember build up from hardwood is a pain in the arse when your fire never goes out. So, if we can get all of out customers to burn a decent proportion of softwood and season all their own firewood, we'll be laughing!

I had no idea conspiracy theory was so big in Ireland! I'll go get my tin hat

If you look at the exit poll data relating to level of education and level of involvement in religious institutions, the correlation is clear.

If you deny it's existence, you cannot hope to tackle it. Man made climate change has been (like evolution) proved to be true beyond all reasonable doubt. I do not know how we go about fixing it, and honestly I don't think that it is truly fixable. We can however slow it's progress and maybe just stop it if we have a unified and cooperative approach to tackling it. Small minded, isolationist mentalities (even without the anti science, fundamental religious overtones) are contrary to this.

You are very, very wrong. The hard sciences, which you appear to hold in high esteem are unanimous on this.

In some respects left leaning, but less so now than in my younger days. I accept that the American electoral system is buggered. The sheer quantities of money that are involved beggar belief. It needs a fundamental reevaluation, and a recognition that the United States are many things, but United is not one of them. The issue is (taking Trump's deplorable personality out of the equation) that Trump represents everything that he claims he wants to change. He claims to be in it for the little man, yet his upbringing and life could not be more different. He claims to be against free trade, yet has enjoyed this benefit all around the world. How his admission that he has paid no income tax for nearly 20 years has not disgusted the average working Joe is beyond me. It is also interesting that looking at the electorate demographics, the two most significant attributes for voting Trump were education and religion (in most cases the completion of the first precludes the adherence to the second). The more religious and ill educated you are, the more likely you were to vote for Trump. Just as well really as neither Trump nor Pence believe in climate change and Pence is a creationist. Just unbelievable really!

I see no issue with the BBC coverage of the election campaign. Fair enough, Hillary was a poor candidate, but Trump is a lunatic. He can only be described as a sociopathic, misogynistic, arrogant, ill informed, lying, cowardly moron. He has exposed America as being a country where prejudice, hatred and ignorance are not only accepted on the public stage, but are celebrated. The level of national stupidity required to elect Trump dwarfs that required to vote for Brexit. I'm shocked and saddened. I have friends in the US and they are heartbroken. I can't see any iteration of a Trump presidency that doesn't end in disaster. The man is a disgrace.