AA Teccie (Paul)

Hi Tom, I understand your frustration, ad indeed apologise for any contribution we've inadvertently made. We do (try) to talk to the Commission but with very varying degrees of success, which varies greatly in the different regions. Whilst the FC are obviously one organisation, in my experience, the regions operate with varying degrees of autonomy and trying to get a consistent approach is challenging (a grave understatement!) The most recent example of this would be two 'tree surgery' framework contracts advertised side by side on the FC website where one (East Anglia) stipulated contractors must be ARB Approved and the other (South West) didn't mention it at all. As an aside, but related, at a recent HSE event, 2 chaps from the FC were present and when I questioned them about their take on things, as far as tree surgery was concerned, and they indicated mandatory FISA training would not be applicable in the tree...but as soon as they stood on the ground it would. Needless to say I raised my eyebrows over the top of my head..! We will persevere where/when we can. Cheers.. Paul

Hi Jules, I hope you're well. Exactly, the problem is the HSE RIDDOR reports don't differentiate between the different industry sectors. Hence FISA, originally, representing the larger organisations within the forestry industry sector, were able to identify chainsaw etc. accidents, of which there were many (apparently) and hence the mandatory refresher training requirement was introduced. Arguably, I would suggest, the skills requirements, and therefore the corresponding need for refresher / update training, is much more diverse in the 'arb' sector and hence more challenging. regards.. Paul

Morning all, an interesting thread. Firstly, if I may, to say that refresher / update training has always been a requirement of the PUWER Regs and AFAG/FISA 805 'Training and Certification', and rightly so. The recommended time period for a professional user, so not me anymore , is every 5 years. Secondly, I have had conversations with HSE regarding the FISA 'mandatory training' situation and been reassured they have no intention to introduce that in the arb sector (remembering of course the HSE didn't introduce in the Forestry sector, FISA and the larger organisations did due to their poor accident rates.) Nonetheless it does highlight the issue and means we need to think more seriously about it perhaps. Thirdly, never been there myself, but many of our scheme Lead Assessors do accident investigation and the very definite feedback I get is that HSE / coroners etc. are generally more interested in training / refresher training than NPTCs / Lantra's etc. (perhaps in part not being aware of them.) So, to protect yourself AND your staff, you do need to be able to demonstrate an 'active' system of skills review and updates where/when/if necessary. I would suggest "up-skilling" wherever possible, and applicable, e.g. CS31 up to CS32/33 up to CS34/35 etc. (and yes I know that's old money now.) Also, accident stats, safety performance, longevity are other important considerations. IMHO, albeit not exclusively, there is often a greater need for refreshers / updates in the aerial aspects, rescue/climbing/rigging etc. due to advances in equipment / techniques / technologies. I wholly acknowledge the financial implications of training, a 'tripe whammy' in effect, BUT it is a significant 'control' issue for risk and needs to be viewed as an investment (I know, easy for me to say, to promote it as such and hopefully you'll get 'buy-in' and commitment from staff.) Lastly, we are involved with FISA on the review of the leaflets that cross both industry sectors to ensure 'arb' is represented (this avoids having a separate set of leaflets / guidance.) The aerial leaflets are still HSE/AFAG, and the group is still active, and these are coming our way. Finally, FISA have told me, albeit I've asked for a written position statement but nothing to date, that 'arb' activities will not require FISA refresher training...but they will require evidence of suitable 'refresher training' to work on their sites. Hope this helps, a little, n apologies for the verboseness (if such a word .) Cheers all, n take care out there.. Paul

Hi Steph, good to hear, I hope you're all well. Thanks for this and I look forward to seeing you at Kirkley Hall. Excellent stuff.. TTFN.. Paul

Hi Sam, Look here Training - Arboricultural Association scrolling through to ROLO courses. Cheers.. Paul

Hi all, just an early 'heads up' for this FREE workshop / seminar. See ARB Approved Contractor Preparation Workshop for further info. Post back soon Thanks all.. Paul

Whilst I cannot comment on the specifics here, as others have mentioned it's about the risk assessment process, a collective and collaborative approach, and individual capabilities thereafter if deemed suitable / safe / appropriate to climb. If not then alternative methods need to be deployed (the, "soon to be released", Industry Code of Practice for Tree Work at Height will assist those involved in the planning and organisation of such.) Cheers all.. Paul

Hi, thanks for the reminder. Having just re-read the LOLER ACOP (updated version) whilst the regs. don't use the word 'must' in relation to pre-use inspections, neither do they use the word 'should' but the associated guidance does and clearly implies 'must'. So, does that answer your question? Suffice to say you should always undertake pre-use inspections of your climbing kit etc. prior to use, and of course it's in your best interest to do so, most importantly Take care out there n hope to see you again sooooooon. TTFN.. Paul

Hi 'Erbs', THANK YOU for coming along and good to hear you enjoyed the biscuits Do remind me of that very 'sharp' question you asked about LOLER n whether something was "should" or "must" as I don't think I followed it up. Cheers.. Paul

PS If you want h'official recognition of attending the event, including a certificate of attendance for yer CPD / CEU records, you'll need to formally book on at the respective links below: Myerscough (21st Jan) - ARB Approved Contractor Preparation Workshop Kirkley (11th Feb) - ARB Approved Contractor Preparation Workshop PPS Don't forget you get yer own choice of lunch too as 'BYO' Thanks again n see you's there.. Paul

Excellent, must almost be hitting "party" numbers now. Many thanks all for supporting this event Paul

Great, hope to see you there. Nice one.. Paul

Excellent, 11th Feb at Kirkley Hall, bit of a drive for you...but I'm worth it I'm sure we can offer some pointers for your business in terms of compliance n maybe how things can run a bit smoother. Nice one Paul

Excellent, I look forward to meeting you there and hearing more. Cheers Paul

It's probably the "pathetic green bag" thing he doesn't like but why speculate, ask him? (and I too suggest the standard first aid box looks more convincing but is often sparse in medium/large wound dressings as blood-stoppers if needed, hopefully not.) The other key issue here of course is relevant FA training, including training for use of the more specialist bits of kit you're carrying which are "over n above" the norm. Cheers, Paul

That's interesting, and exactly why this forum is invaluable. I would never have thought of this important issue. So, basically, check with the Conservation Officer at the council rather than the Tree Officer. Good stuff, thank you.. Paul

N here's the EA guidance that says tree surgeons have to register (see below, bottom p.4) Cheers.. Paul Who_should_register.pdf

A 'BUMP', if I might be so rude Thanks all, n please come n join me at Kirkley Hall, we don't get that far north that often n I'd hate to spend that day on mi lonesome Hope to hear back soon ('pm' me is prob best ) Cheers.. Paul

This is both the real "proof of the pudding", so to speak, and indeed the challenge to maintain. "Clocked!" Cheers.. Paul

A good point here but PUWER Reg 9 does specifically say a 'certificate of competence' for chainsaw users (or national competence award.) Paul

Hi there, I cannot post an authoritative reply here as I'm not sure but, on the strength of your 'blue book', and provided you can demonstrate ongoing use of the chainsaw and (small) tree felling since, i.e. a letter from your employer, to demonstrate competence, I would try to access a CS32 course (felling trees greater than 380mm) and agree to incorporate a double-assessment, i.e. a reassessment for your CS30/31 and a new assessment for your CS32. Might be worth a try, particularly if you can access the CS32 course where you did the original CS30/31. Good luck.. Paul

Hi all, and HPN, albeit belated:001_rolleyes: We are proposing to deliver an ARB Approved Contractor Preparation Workshop on this date at Kirkley Hall, subject to sufficient interest...as always. It's just that I would normally fly up from Exeter so hence to know sooner rather than later would be useful so I can book flights etc. The event, as always, is FoC and no obligation so please give it some serious thought and let me know either directly by sending a 'pm' please, or to [email protected], or by booking on the website at ARB Approved Contractor Preparation Workshop Also, to make it 'doubly' worthwhile, we were anticipating delivering a 'Risk Assessment for Commercial Arb.' course the following day (Thurs. 12th Feb.) see Risk Assessment for Commercial Arboriculture for further info n booking details. Thanks all n hope to hear back soon.. Paul

Hi Chris, 'et al', this is correct, thank you. Also, Tech Cert (ArborA) is a level 3 qualification regardless of when you attained it. Only under the 'new' system has it been substituted by the ABC Awards Level 4 Arb. Many, understandably, are under the impression the qualification was upgraded to level 4 when ABC Awards took it on from the AA as the awarding body sometime ago but this was never the case. Perhaps its fair to say it was level 4 teaching for a level 3 exam, at least where Mssrs Summerly and Dowson where involved. Regards all, and Happy New Year Paul