AA Teccie (Paul)

"Shhh Hama'd"...I'm teeling the boss it's under duress! Naaa, t'be honest it's been, and continues to be, a real 'eye opener' n Nicks supportin me all the way! Bring it on ! Paul

I'm extremely keen to listen what you say, consider what the standards require, AND reach a compromise to make it work without being over bureaucratic n 'paperwork for paperworks, BUT some is needed. We wanna engage with you (that's not a proposal BTW...ha!) and if weekend's good for you then weekend's good for me....sos a bit late today but 'Mummys Day' etc. n expectations....but apparnetly, apart from BBQing the carrots, mi Sunday lunch was pretty damn good (thanks goodness only once a year!) Cheers 'Skyhuck'.. Paul

Skyhuck.'SWB' & Hama'd, thanks for your posts and discussions. Provision of quotes IS part of the current standards, AND in terms of the tree work specification are a very good indication of knowledge etc. and competnece in terms of BS3998& ETPG (Euro Tree Pruning Guide). Absolutely NOT wanting to create a requirement for uncessary papaerowrk but, in part, provison of a written quote can separate out the 'good guys' form the bad...IN PART! What I would say is 'YES' you should for every job as the text book answer, however, in relaity and particularly with 'repeat customers', if you do it on the strength of a verbal agreement and a gentlemans hand-shake the gudon'ya, and you've probably operated that way for years (as you've said) BUT in the, albeit highly unlikely, event a customer wasn't ahhpy what you'd done was as described AND complained to the AA, then, in the absence of a written quote to base an opinion on, the likleyhood is we would say you have to go back and sort it....if you're happy to 'take that risk' then thats you're decision. A triplicate pad on site, hand written may be a good compromise? Cheers.. Paul

Hi Janey, THANK YOU for your comments I will ensure these are feedback to HSE/Treevolution as I consider them to be valid and valuable in further refinements of the course. If I may, as a matter of interest, and 'Yes' it was a plug for 'AAACs' but that's why I'm there...have you any direct comments for myself?...thank you! Paul

Mesterh, if I may add a contribution. When I deliver the RA training I promote/advocate the 'blank page' approach..."WHAT, that sounds good eh!" Basically, on arrival at the job, whilst you're having a fag or a coffee 'weighing it up', just list the first 5 obvious 'hazards/things to consider'...AND NOT chainsaws, chippers, grinders etc, coz they're all covered in your generics n everyone's trained n skilled up, BUT the 'greenhouse', the 'spiked railings', the nasty bitey dog in next doors garden/the poop all over the garden, the slippery/ice rink type patio arae covered in moss...blah, blah, blah (ha!) AND make sure they get transferred onto the SSRA form WITH, albeit very briefly, your controls, i.e. greenhouse=plyboards n rig that side, spiked fence = shutter off (somehow), dog sh*t = get owner to clear...,etc. etc. etc. n then make sure evreyone on site is breifed AND signs to demonstarte such ('your posterior protection' as the employer), then have your last 'fag drag/coffe slurp' n away ya go! That said our system does have a specific box for W@H assessment, to basically explaining why you're not in a MEWP, but this can be refined 'in-house' (n I explain how on the course) to make it a quick 'tick box' exercise....this was done to maintain HSE recognition of the system whihc is a (very) good thing to have! The RA course isn't the sexiest or most exciting day, n there's no 'dancing girls' (I can try if requested!) but it does now include a couple of outdorr exercises, whihc it didn't previously, and enduring IT and ME for ONE day, and paying £180(+VAT..sorry!) IS MONEY/TIME WELL INVESTED I BELIEVE! SORRY for Sat morning waffle...now I'm back to 'Swap Shop' n Mr Edmonds...if only! have agudun! Paul

Hey 'Mesterh', thanks for posting back. That simple form (kinda) for the site specifc risk assessment is available BUT I'm afraid you would have to come on the course as this not only covers the hazards and risk etc. covered by your existing NPTC competnece but alos introduces the legilsative requirements for RA (yawn , yawn, BUT important if you're an employer or engager of subbies) AND, more importantly introduces the system and how it works, how to implemnet it and how to maintain it. For the smaller, straight forward jobs, where as you say the clients won't request it you can propbably operate adequately from the generics with a good verbal brieifng on site. But, for the bigger, more complex jobs, EVEN I would suggest where you are a 'less tahn 5' employer/engager, a documented risk assessment would be a good failsafe. Once familair with the sytem, and it's in place, I reckon 5-10mins at the start of a job that's gonna last say at least half a day, typically, to do the RA and 'Emergency Contingencies' is time well spent. BUT then I would say that as I work for the AA, deliver the course, and I'm a 'NEBOSH' anorak....but I also believe, used correctly, a good RA systems prevents serious injuries and ensures, if they do happen, adequate arrangements are in place to deal with this. If you are interested I think there's still a couple of places left on the Chorley/Leyland course in early May. Cheers.. Paul

Hong Kong 'silk finish'?....Friday afternoon eh! Av a gudun..! P.

Hi all, 'feeling fruity eh?!' Although I know nothing, or at least very little, about FTP I'm lead to believe this organisation, whilst Devon based, has links up&down the country and hence may be worth a look and a contact. Orchard Link Home page Good luck..! Paul

David thank you. I, and the AA, simply want what we all do in 'good quality tree care' as the norm and a professional service (AKA 'THE Tree Community') undertaken by a united and coherent industry to benefit society, and I believe we are well placed to facilitate this...I do however wholly accept we need to 'up our game' and prove this, as we haven't done that great to date, but give us/me a chance and we will. Best regards.. Paul PS 'Awwww poor wittle pussies...miaowwww!'

SORRY ALL I stand corrected, it is indeed the Japanese Lacquer Tree to which I refer! MORE PHOTOS REQUESTED PLEASE (ideally direct to '[email protected]'!) thanks all..! Paul

Absolutely, sorry I got a bit 'sentimental' in my previous post above. If you want me to do one of my trademark postings on Accident (UNDER)Reporting and (UNDER) Recording just give me the green light....great for insomniacs! Your truely.. Paul

Appen I should start posting in episodes eh?!...'to be continued!' SORRY! Paul

'SWB' you sure you're not a politician?...but then you seem far too honest, so probably not! Again, 'spot on', listening to the clients needs and being mindful of the 'trees' needs = a balanced, and professional, recommendation (even if you do talk yourslef out of a couple of big jobs hoepfully you get others and smaller jobs appen more often). Keep up the good work..! Cheers.. Paul

Thanks for your post 'Hamadryad' and I hope the posts are useful and I hope the wider 'Arbtalk' community get to see at least some of them to give a better angle on where we're coming from. Absolutely spot on about developing a scheme that is accesible to all, and importnatly works for all, to "leave others in the shade"as you say. Many thanks for your regular posts! Paul

Spot on...the phrase "horses for courses" comnes to mind. I'm not saying on closer scrutiny we wouldn't suggest a few things, refinements, but your set up is very typically of a smal contractor...and it clearly works so why change it! Just make sure you've got a 'PAT' test cert for that 'washing machine...or is it the dishwasher...ha! Cheers.. Paul

Take me outside of H&S and the AC scheme etc. and suddenly words fail me (I'm no real 'word-smith' anyway well okay I am the latter...popular not common now) BUT this kinda thread just 'blows me away to be honest'! Again the sense of community, concern, camararderie (spelling?), openess and genuine sincerity for each others wellbeing and safety here on 'Arbtalk' is nothing short of amazin and I'm touched (G*d, I'll have you all blubberin next!) STIFF UPPER LIPS CHAPS...REMEMBER WE'RE HARDY TREE SURGEONS....or "used to be's" (IN MY CASE!) Guddon'ya David n thank you! Paul PS As someone quite rightly points out, and perhaps worth exploring further at some stage to improve our industry image in the eyes of HSE, the stats are contaminated/distorted by 'none' professional related incidents/accidents but nonetheless let it be a lesson to us all never to be complacent...afterall where'd "Arbtalk" be without you/us all...be safe!

Hi 'Gimmer', I deliver on the HSE 'Engaging Arbs' SHAD, aimed at advising/informing clients of their duties and what's involved in checking a H&S 'competent' contractor etc. Whilst I'm more than happy to contribute here it's probably not my input you're looking for...but let me know if different. Cheers.. Paul

Dear 'Omniata', thank you for post and links which are indeed useful. I'm still keen to get actual photos 'in the field', so to speak, as I feel these are likely to better illustrate the 'problem' tree and pictures when dormant would be particularly useful. Anyone able to oblige please email direct '[email protected]'. Many thanks all. Paul

Thanks John, Ur 'toppa the order book!' Cheers.. Paul

No, not as such, although we do have control over what goes in the boxes. 2nd guessing your query we don't have any direct control over where the box appears in the TreeWork section although we would like it to appear at the beginning. Paul

Thanks 'MD', this one does worry me for everyone's sake and the more we can do to psoitively id it, AND include a photo gallery wheerever we can, the better for all. I may see a bit 'OTT' but honestly is was as exactlly as James said just like acid had been poured on the skin...terrible! Cheers.. Paul

Dear all, As you may be aware the HSE, periodically, produce the 'Tree Work News' ebulletin which is avalaible on theior webiste or you can subscribe to it and they'll send direct. The latest edition has just been circulated and reports another injury/incident to an arborsit coming into contact with sap from the Chinese Varnish Tree (Toxicodendron verniciflua) This tree (I saw photo's of the first chap affected and it was bad, very bad!) is one to be avoided or to take very great care with with full PPE and, ideally, working on during the dormant season when the sap isn't so active. BUT, first of all, we need to positively identify it, which isn't that easy (not sure I would readily be able to do so either) HSE did include a photo in a previous 'Arb News' edition see http://www.hse.gov.uk/agriculture/pdf/arboc06.pdf. My plea is to those who do know this tree, and have access to it for photographing purposes (in particular now whilst it's dormant for twig/bud ident), can you please do so and email me direct '[email protected]'. I then propose to approach Chris Skellern of the 'Arb Info Exchange' website, a very valuable on-line arb resource (as this is but with a different focus) to hold a gallery to aid identification for everyone to view. PLEASE HELP if you can. thank you in anticipation Paul PS I apologise if there is a facility here on 'Arbtalk' to host this gallery which I am unaware of, but if so please shout and we can maybe host it there too.

You must be a popular man...please can you empty your 'PM' inbox and make a bit of room for me...ta! SORRY ALL didn't know how else to sort this one! Paul

Thanks for the post 'Mesterh', We produce a 'H&S Package' (£45 +p&p) which is designed to help small companies put some/most of the necessary procedures (paperwork systems etc.) in place in oredr to be able to evidence the raft of legilsation and regulation we, as an industry, need to comply with. Interestingly (REALLY?...Paul needs to get out more!) this is usually only actioned once the company expects to be audited, i.e. AC assessment, before that stage, in particular smaller companies, are often 'compliant/competent' on site, but have no need to demonstaret such atthe documnetray level...even tho this may be helpful. Anyway the H&S package only includes a short introduction to Risk Assessment as this is a key, and very important, area of H&S management and we encourage people to attend a specific one-day RA workshop we deliver whihc includes a RA system that can be readily imported into the company AND it's specific to arb contracting. The reason we don't offer the risk assessment as a freedownload doc. (although there are similiar styled generics on the HSE website see http://www.hse.gov.uk/risk/casestudies/pdf/bricklayers.pdf ) nor as an 'off the shelf' product is because we believe it is vitally important the perosn implemnting the system / undertaking the risk assessments fully understands the system through relevant training and is therefore (more) 'competent' so to do (this view is wholly endorsed by HSE). This is absolutely not the AA trying to make money from the industry but we do not, and I frimly believe never should, release the RA methodology without the training. Another view would be it costs £180+VAT (£150+VAT for members) for the course inc. a RA methodology whihc has been 'tried and tested' and is recognised by HSE = good value for money? (I think so!) On this particular point I did deliver some RA training recently to large national landscape/arb contractor as a consequence of an 'Improvement Notice' served by HSE in response to an accident in the company. The 'company' engaged a very well known, and very well respecetd, national H&S Consultancy to deliver this but it was deemed unsatisfactory by HSE so they cam e to us, I delivered 2 workshops modified to include a couple of practical exercise (which have now become a standard part of the workshop) and HSE were happy and signed the company off as complying. Hope this answers your question and sorry if I've gone off the thread slightly! Cheers.. Paul

Hokay..! P.