Greig Sutherland

Hi folks, Well thank you all for the very kind words it was good to meet you all, really good day and input from everyone. Morning tea made the day thanks Al You guys pretty much answered all the questions thank you, perfectly articulated and couldn't have done it better myself but i'll put my 2cents worth in, why not For Swinney - Yes you do get a certificate from Arb Aid which mean that you are now an Arb Aid practitioner, you will have the knowledge and skills to be able to use our kits with confidence in any situation, this is also backed up with our aerial rescue and self rescue sessions within the course which, will also give a level of professionalism, safety and confidence in dealing with your own emergencies in the tree and that of your work colleagues. Regarding criteria for certain jobs, ignorance is what makes HSE type first aid courses fit the criteria up until now, industry specific first aid equipment and training are the new standard, show them your kit and that should be enough I would think! Refresher training is something you should undertake on a regular basis even more so with aerial rescue and first aid and not for it to be a box ticking exercise as it has always been before. 3 years is on our certs now with most customers coming back every year for an update and refresher of skills at different levels depending on the company. Hope this answers your questions. If anyone has any other questions please feel free to get in touch either by pm on hear or email me at [email protected] P.s. Website will be live in a few weeks so watch out for that. All the best Greig

Hi SteveA, Please send over an email to [email protected] for further info about our kits and industry specific training for tree workers.(Apologies for the website holding page at the moment and not being able to access the info you require, will be back up and running soon with a great new site) To answers some comments about first aid kits for arborists/foresters- Problem with buying your own case and filling it with any old products is, firstly you'll need to but from different suppliers so additional postage costs for each purchase. Testing each product is also recommended in this instance, so another additional cost if you are going to do it right. The contents will not be laid out in any kind of order like Arb Aid's is, this will make the difference when an incident happens and you can't find what your looking for, time will be of the essence. There is nothing in Arb Aid's kit that you wouldn't want/need, it has been developed by myself, 16 years in Arb so plenty of experience about what's needed, including many things which cannot be bought of the shelf as we have developed them specifically for arborist injuries - i.e. Finger bandage that actually works for nightmare silky cuts We developed a txt refill service so your never out of stock, just send a txt and product code and you will get it sent out straight away, invoiced at the end of the month. All the products are listed on the back of the accident book within the kit(Another great feature). If you work in forestry we have a space for a PLB within the kits, locates you to 55m anywhere in the world if you have no mobile phone signal of your phone breaks down. We also run courses on how to use the contents of these kits in an aerial rescue and forestry setting. And last but not least, It's great to have an industry standard kit like Arb Aids, then everyone knows how to use the contents and where to find them in an emergency, no more toolbox talks about how to use the stuff you bought for your kit which know one has seen before, let alone used, HSE kits are just not cutting it in treework injuries. Thanks for the kind words Dan Earp/Truncator If anyone else would like more information about Arb Aids products and training please feel free to use the email address in the signature below, also check our our facebook page for up-to-date info about us and what we do, including great tree related info, injuries and training courses we've ran in the past. Cheers

Hi Johny, To answer your question about shelf life - At the very best the consumables have 3 years, the compression bandages have 5 years, we try our very best to offer the very best dates we can but there will be a few months form making the kits to end user. The PLB has a battery life of 6 years. Also, many of the products do not have a shelf life really like the tourniquet, tweezers, splint, shears etc. Refilling in 3 years is equal to a normal FA kit cost assuming you don't use the stuff...But it has been designed to be used not just for the ticking of boxes I hope to answer a few of the other questions soon folks, bare with us Happy new year to you all and all the best for 2013 Greig

Hi all!! Thanks Andy for bringing this subject up again, it was great to finally meet you and talk at length about this particular subject, rainy day or not Imo the subject cannot be talked about enough as i can see from some of the posts - information and knowledge is a little incorrect, somewhat outdated or just plain wrong and this is where forums like this can play apart in education - that is where we all must come from. To clarify on a few points - (Please understand this is not sales material but educational information) The Quilclot combat gauze used in our kits IS NON-EXOTHERMIC(does not generate heat unlike 1st+2nd generation Quikclot) the active ingredient is Kaolin which is used in may medical products and industries alike, The haemostatic agent used in Quilclot is impregnated into a gauze material which can then be packed safely into a wound, letting any haemostatic agent fall on to blood flow WILL NOT WORK!! indirect pressure to stop blood flow is needed in all instances. Tourniquet application might also be a consideration as a short term solution eg aerial rescue.. The price of a trauma kit - £290 + vat PLB(Personal Location Beacon) - £220 +vat The PLB comes as an added extra for those who are working in remote locations. The idea behind this is not just if you have identified in your risk assessment that there is no mobile phone signal but also to be used if you are unable to direct the emergency services to your location through normal methods(mobile phone) Press the button on the PLB - phone for help and say i have an emergency, i do not know how to direct you to the location but you will be contacted in a few minutes with grid ref details because i have activated my PLB. The ambulance is on its way.... deal with the emergency until they arrive. Our kit will not fit under most seats:) that is the idea - It has to be taken on site with you at all times, where else would you want your first aid kit - CLOSE AT HAND!! That is why it is water proof and crush proof - to keep your life saving products safe, clean and dry. With regards to show demos - Arb Aid would love the opportunity to be part of this, we have the kits, knowledge, industry experience and trainers to be able to provide the best educational demonstration the industry has ever seen!! We are already incorporating real life scenarios into our training and candidate assessments. Hammer - you can make that decision, if the company you work for does not carry sufficient provisions for first aid then they are breaking the law and putting YOUR LIFE and you workmates lives at stake - all in the name of profit!! Unfortunately it takes a serious injury or for another arborist to die before companies think about updating or improving what they are already doing which is very sad Imo - all for the sake of a few hundred quid!! I know you have been a loyal and valiant supporter of Arb Aid from the very start and with that in mind there will be a kit on it's way to you very soon my friend..... Thank you Gareth - Good point you have made there, Arb Aid takes all the hard work out of sourcing your own kits and products, the contents are tried and tested, we have done all the research on what is best and what works for the arb industry, no more long night on the net resourcing and buying samples to see which works best for you and your team. At the moment myself and the clinical directors at Arb Aid agree that Quikclot Gauze is the best product most suited to the arborist environment, when and if our knowledge changes and a better products presents itself the kit will update as well as the training, i give you my guarantee on this - my only goal is to give arborists better equipment and training to allow them to go home to their families at night - In one piece!! Right now Arb Aid is planting the seeds of change in Arboriculture and Forestry, only good things can come of this i promise you that. After listening to feedback from customer we are now working on a kit with just trauma essentials for those of you who are ok with using grubby dirty fingers to clean sawdust out of your eyes stay tuned for Arb Aid's next product release, coming soon......... Justin, sorry never got to speak with you more i did see you were very busy, sometime soon i hope. I will try my best to answer any and all post as honestly, efficiently and without bias so replies might be a little delayed as I leave tomorrow morning for the ISA ITCC forum and trade show in Sydney and i haven't even packed yet lol - Arb Aid will be showcasing the trauma kit and of course to see some of the best climbers in the world hash it out in some of the most beautiful glorious trees in Sydney, wish me luck folks and speak to you all soon. Best wishes for now and climb safe!! Greig sutherland

Hi Ian, thanks for the kind words, it really makes it feel that bit more worth while when i get good feedback from guys like yourself, how many will i put you down for How much do you pay for ppe every year or two? They are designed to save a life, well not 1oo% of course but it helps to some extent, my point is, we spend alot of money on ppe that is not 100% effective and we all know this but yet when all else fails and the accident happens, a crappy we first aid kit at our disposal just to keep the HSE happy, not good sense imo. Nobody is saying we have to become paramedics, there is no medication in this kit at all, no green jump suits or flashy lights and sirens just good quality products that aid in "stalling the deterioration of the casualty's condition" until the paramedics arrive, technology has moved forward since the uk government introduced first aid for everyone nearly 30 years ago and the legislation that was brought out has pretty much stayed the same since. What is wrong with having that little extra knowledge, we all do training to become arborists, just another feather in the cap imo. Contents vary from 3 years for some products and 5 for others, all at a very affordable price. I am struggling to comprehend how you can think a £20 kit is sufficient for the potential injuries an arb or forester might encounter, did you see the pics of Dave's leg? Sticky on the general forum page, fatality in surrey? Just some of the few accidents that have happened. If you have 5 vehicles running that's alot of gear to buy every year never mind trucks to run, insurance etc etc, in the scale of things it's a small price to pay when you have that kind of turn over. 3 men per truck on average, so that's £100 per man and that cost will less than quarter in 3 years for your first refill and you still have the case as it come with a lifetime guarantee. Good business sense cause it will save you money in the long term.

Hi Judge, It has to be the way forward if we stand any chance of getting home to see our loved ones, I've seen way to many threads on Arbtalk about injuries and deaths over the past year or two and having read the HSE report on fatalities in the industry doesn't make for pleasant reading either and that's just the stuff that's reported... This might be the first step in realising something needs to change, I can see lots of contributing factors that lead to injuries of any sort but where do we start when looking at reducing the risks and chance of using our fist aid kits, but this must be for the whole of Arb + Forestry in the UK, not just Arb's in the south of England. Nothing happens very fast in my experience, look how long it has taken for the industry to adopt chainsaw protective trouser, god some folks still don't wear them... Hi fergusonforestry, I hope you enjoyed our course and that it's been beneficial to you and the team you work with. We offer Fpos(First person on scene) training to every customer but not every customer feels they need that extra training... from speaking to people who purchase a kit they realise there is a genuine requirement for a first aid kit that can handle the potential injuries a chainsaw user is likely to encounter but have not been able to find an alternative to the "green boxes" on offer at the moment.

Well it's a good start in my opinion, but what will you do when you effect the best rescue known to man, stand round him/her at the bottom of the tree watching the life blood run out of him/her because no one knows what to do or does not have a kit that can deal with the injuries. Good training, experience and common sense are just some of the qualities we all hope to have at our disposal when and if that time ever comes. Well most of you wont have to use "bits and pieces" now you have the right kit for the job. The basic concepts developed by Arb Aid need some basic training on its use, it takes very little time to do so, you still have to apply that knowledge in a real life situation regardless of what you have at your disposal, why make life difficult when you don't have too, i can understand having to make do in the past thats why i designed the kit because bits and pieces isn't good enough in my opinion. The thing with gaffa tape is that it's so bulky to have laying around, it doesn't fit in your pocket either and it'll take you 10 minutes just to find the end Thats like saying you use shoe laces to climb trees with just because it's the closest piece of "ropage" within reach, Loller'd of course I'd like to think arborists are made of better stuff than that using the right kit for the job. Question WeeDee - have you ever thought of the pain and suffering that a person might go through, possibly your friend when the docs try to peel off the aforementioned gaffer tape and bust the clot, tearing at the open skin and bone and muscle? Excellent advise David, Good point David, some basic info is needed for proper tourniquet use, some things to bear in mind.... A tourniquet is a generic term for a "constricting or compressing device used to control venous and arterial circulation to an extremity for a period of time" - Wikipedia If your going to have to use a tourniquet in an emergency situation The tourniquet supplied in our kits is the one for the job, stay away from narrower items like rope or boot laces - this is what causes tissue and nerve damage due to a crushing effect after prolonged and sustained pressure, and is what is most likely going to be used if it's all that's available, with our kits you have them on site close at hand maybe stropped to the nearest tree, the benefits of a crush proof/water proof case. It just makes sense. First aid on site close at hand for when you need it, not just for chainsaw wounds either, i'm always looking out the cotton buds and mirror for when i get saw dust in the eyes, don't want to be a blind arb in ma old age Can't see the trees for the wood - chip In my Eyes

Hi all, thought i would bring this one up again, A few points on hear about heamostatic agents that might be of interest http://arbtalk.co.uk/forum/general-chat/16711-celox-warning.htm Cheers

Hi Bob, We use the 4" emergency trauma bandages in our arb first aid kits, each kit comes with 2 vacuum packed "Israeli bandages", used by the worlds military for major trauma. Best available in my opinion and we have tested a few. Arborist Trauma First Aid & Safety Equipment-Emergency bandage Cheers

Hi Scottish, Few places you can study Arb in Scotland. Kilmarnock college - Craig Centre, Kilmarnock Barony college - Dumfries,Not to far from Clark for all your equipment needs Inverness college - Culloden, Inverness SAC as mentioned before - Ayr There is another which i cannot remember, anyone?? Not sure what each individual college is doing with regards to level of qualification but they all provide Arboriculture full time courses, SAC i am not sure if they do right now or not. Should find them all on the net easy enough. Hope this helps you out, know one needs £3,500 fees each year, but if it is a good school and you are getting taught the right things, the devil you know and all that...... Best of luck:001_smile:

Thanks Arbogrunt, it's good to hear that you have a C.A.T Tourniquet, do you keep it as a personal first aid item or is it in the first aid kit in the truck? What kind of skills/knowledge do you hope to come away with after your FAW training? Is it the Israeli bandage or emergency bandage,they may well be the same thing. 4" or "6, there is another type of emergency bandage that comes with quite a unique feature,a plastic "ratchet" which helps apply pressure to a wound, it's very simple but needs demonstrating once, take care you know which one you have, industry standard for the worlds military, along with combat gauze and C.A.T . It has to be the way forward when dealing with chainsaw wounds, much better than gaffer tape anyway:001_smile:

Hi Folks, Hi Nick, i am of the same view as yourself, a lot of folks carrying celox who are pretty unsure of how to use it, not their fault to be honest. It is a great product if used correctly. Just to clarify on a few points, First generation quikclot granules(loose granules) did give off heat to the point where it did cause burns to both patient and care giver, the heat came from the exothermic reaction that takes place when in contact with blood/water, the quikclot acts as a molecular sieve and extracts the water molecules in the blood, in doing this it leaves only clotting factors behind promoting a natural rapid clot. The resulting heat and burns generated was deemed acceptable if used in life or death situations. Personally, i would be ok with it too. To stop the skin burning all you have to do is flood the granules with water, this causes the molecules to become saturated, just like a sponge, which stops the reaction and resulting heat. Not for finger cuts!! That was first generation, Quikclot has advanced quite a lot since then, it now comes in 2 new delivery types, ACS+ (Advanced Clotting Sponge) which is great because it cannot get blown away by the wind and is great for packing a wound because of the "tea bag" it comes in. This stuff does give off heat but it doesn't burn. The newest product from Z-Medica is Quikclot combat gauze, again it is great for packing wounds, very easy to use, you cannot accidental get it in your eyes(not to say if you rubbed it in your eyes it would not hurt or cause damage, i will check that one out) and it cannot blow away or get washed away by strong blood flow. e.g arterial bleed...... and to top it off i does not produce any heat. It is the best on the market right now,in my opinion For those reasons the team at Arb Aid chose combat gauze, as Nick said, you need to stop the blood flow with direct pressure on the right pressure point before administering any type of Haemostatic agent, or they will not work correctly!! This is where a tourniquet comes in handy. It frees up the hand that is applying the pressure, allowing you to use the free hand to apply your haemostatic agent of choice and wrap a bandage round it.

Yeh spot on treequip, HSE only give basic guidance for first aid, but they do expect specialist industries to have kits and training that are relevant and appropriate to the risks identified. Scuba diving for example has it's own specialist first aid course, the HSE have recognised a need for this, the divers have recognised this so they have an industry specific first aid course, if your going to do a first aid course, why not make it industry specific, makes sense to me, i like having a good first aid knowledge, i know that i could potentially save a friends life some day. No amount of planning and risk assessments can prevent an accident, it only takes a second of complacency for an accident to happen, just be well equipped when it does and practise rescue regularly. Also, your risk assessment should sate that you have first aid training and equipment that is risk appropriate, fact!! That is what the HSE have recommended..... I was not told about suspension trauma on my St johns course,i had to ask him about it, the Gent in question was not very helpful. Who needs to know about suspension trauma in an office, paper cuts and heart attacks is what's focused on. P.S There are ways to stop a major arterial bleed, letting it all run out of your body before attempting to stop it is not recommended Dean. Find the artery and apply pressure should be anyone's first thoughts in that situation

Yeh thanks m8 had a look at them, they all looked very sore indeed!! There also might be people on arbtalk who might not want to share their experiences or pictures with anyone, very understandable!! But any pictures and experiences will be in the strictest confidence and they will be used to aid in the prevention of other arborists from making the same mistakes. There is no specific one day training on tourniquet use, for the simple reason its pretty quick and easy to learn and use, that is the beauty of them!! the skills learned on a 2 day Trauma management course run by Arb Aid(FPOS Beginner and intermediate level) will teach you tourniquet use along with haemostatic agents, compression bandages and how to get the most from them cumulatively in a working environment! And whole host of other things specific to arboriculture, training info page will be up on the site very soon. Hope this answers your question Mesterh Cheers