Nomad

Speaking to a guy in Shefford this week, He had his Stihl hedgecutters and disc cutter nicked from his place beginning of the week. He made a phone call and the tools were back the next day. PM me if interested and I'll tell you who it was, perhaps pop round and have a chat with him.

Control the food, control the people - Check. I think an apt motto for all this should be "not on my watch".

So..... Sorry for being a dick earlier:blushing: I'm trying to find information on glyphosate and the urban tree/s. I'm not that hopeful to be honest. Anyway I thought this might be of interest... EFFECTS OF GLYPHOSATE ON SEEDLINGS OF CONIFER AND BROADLEAF TREES SPEClES NATIVE TO BRITISH COLUMBIA, WlTH PARTICULAR REGARD TO ROOT-FUNGUS INTERACTIONS BY Rosye Hefmi Rechnelty Tanjung B.Sc., Universitas Andaias, Indonesia, 1986 M.Sc., University of Tasmania, Australia, 1992 http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=23&ved=0COsBEBYwFg&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.collectionscanada.gc.ca%2Fobj%2Fs4%2Ff2%2Fdsk3%2Fftp04%2FNQ61687.pdf&ei=GdppUL__DIiw0QW8zIGACw&usg=AFQjCNF6lrk_ufxCgBWnW8_weKiDoYUUNw&sig2=50b9B5a6T5Fw4crdXOe7zw I've had to link it through google it's a 185 page pdf (6.5MB) For educational purposes. Interesting pics there Quickthorn, throws up a few questions doesn't it. It would make an interesting long term study:thumbup:

What, you haven't even worked out how to do that yet Where you said air drill, I had visions of you dragging a compressed air drill around with you Anyway De Walt is a big seller over here now, but I think people would perhaps go for Makita, I would go for Hilti personally. Keep up the good work.

Nice idea, have you heard of the "Atom" chainsaw drill attachment?

Life doesn't get better than that:001_smile:

It's alright until you hear CRACK!

The bloke that wrote the book seemed to enjoy it!!!

Is it magic? Because there's a rare psychoactive fungi that "only appears where the woodsman have been working" and now I might have a name for it:001_smile:

Burning is definitely preferable to chipping any day. On an operational level these boys haven't got the time, budget, local tip and in many cases road vehicle access to be carting away chips, fire after all is a natural process. A pile of chippings will just leave a patch of contaminated ground and seepage of tannins back into the water course. An old fire patch will become a nettle patch in next to no time, eventually becoming Nitrogen rich and with the potash highly fertile. Nothing wrong with shear cuts although as a surgeon they horrify me but again much more of a natural "prune" than a branch collar cut. Naturally, branches snap and the resulting "rough" wound becomes a haven for all sorts of life. This is a trees natural process. Anyway Willow's love being treated rough

Posted by Arob-(Having had grant aided grubbing up of orchards a decade or two back perhaps we can expect a reversal of that policy sooner than later?) I believe the reversal of that policy is upon us? I don't know why we are not seeing orchards being planted is it landowners slow on the uptake or are the agricultural grants still messed up and years behind like trying to get a grant for turning land over to "bio-mass"? Perhaps the subject for another thread:001_smile:

Getting back on thread, "Glyphosate and trees" at normal recommended application rates Glyphosate appears to not really bother woody plants such as trees, Ivy and brambles for example, however it will act as a growth inhibitor. Easy to test just go out and give some Bramble a good dose and monitor it over a couple of months. Off thread a bit, a big concern has got to be the subsidies given to farmers for drilling a crop leaving it a month or so and spraying it off just to re-sow another. What is that all about? Another really frightening aspect is the amount put down each and every year by our local authorities with road and footpath weedspraying but perhaps that's for another thread. Interesting discussion everyone, shame there's no immediate answers but heh looking on the bright side the way things are going perhaps in 5 years time there will be huge gangs of us hand weeding for a bowl of rice a day

Point taken.

This is great, seems like we are having a proper debate. Perhaps the best place to start to look for evidence about Glyphosate and trees would be the vast areas of forest in South America that the CIA regularly sprayed by plane in the seventies and eighties to try and eradicate the coca plantations. This was a handy little trial for Monsanto to test their product because at the same time GM crop trials were also going on in the area and the resilience of these crops could be monitored. As has been said before research is one thing but to actually get funding to carry out the research is something completely different again and I suspect just would not happen in the English speaking world. Let's say funding had been secured and research carried out then who would publish the results? I can't see anyone other than a competitor with a new competitive product having the means to get the data out in the public domain. Like I said before if anybody feels that strongly about this issue then the place to look is Scandanavia where I am sure Glyphosate is banned in the public and amenity sectors. The research would certainly be there if anyone could translate it as I am sure certain countries in South America would also have done extensive research. Let's not forget that it is Monsanto we are talking about and Glyphosate for them is just an unimaginable cash cow. Prices go up and down willy nilly according to the time of year. Farmers are drilling winter wheat or rape after harvest just so come Spring they can go out, spray it off and stick the bill in for another ridiculous subsidy. BASIS are just a bunch of old boys, sales, contractors, research? and a token Minister. They just had a meeting in Brussels no doubt very expensive, this meeting lasted a maximum of twenty minutes. The newly appointed head of BASIS Lord someone or other introduced himself said thanks for picking him, it seems like an interesting area to be "working" in lets push the industry forward and create new and exciting opportunities for the future, thanks for coming goodbye. I know we are going off thread with this but it is an important subject and I believe that just because we are brainwashed into believing it's good doesn't mean to say it is. Would we have sprayed our Dogs or Children with DDT in the sixties for fleas? I think the answer is YES we would and we bloody well did! Is Microsoft Windows a good operating system? NO it is not, so how come Bill Gates has taken over the world? Did Professor Diesel develop his engine to run on a dirty filthy waste product from the petro-chemical industry, NO he did not, it was developed to run on vegetable oil, funny how he just disappeared one day never to be seen again. We all have our interests to protect and Glyphosate fills the vegetation control niche nicely. It is however hand in hand with GM crops(that's the big picture and who of us would really want to have these monstrous creations in our back yard?). Monsanto will protect their own interests with there own research and blackmail funding to "independent" agencies. We have our own interests to protect and that is why Glyphosate is so widely used, but lets not lose sight of the fact that we have come from the earth and will go back to the earth and we have not inherited it from our ancestors but borrowed it from our children. Oh my word I'm rambling now, Glyphosate is a salt that is held in liquid suspension. This liquid is as far as I know mostly water, but there are additives such as an adjuvant to help the product stick to its target and other things I can't remember, so although we are talking Glyphosate the actual product the consumer uses is not actually just Glyphosate. I wonder if research reflects this? While I'm at it someone coming on here claiming that in "another life" they worked in development of pesticides in the Agrochemical industry" and if you're not in the BASIS club watch what you say because you could be prosecuted blah, blah, blah....... Well I really don't want to come across as demeaning in any way but was your spelling that bad when you were copying down formulas???? Could you not be bothered to use a spell check????? I personally find that highly insulting. Just about sums up the state of corporate Britain plc. Anyway people peace on earth and remember 95% of statistics are made up, or was it 75%? or is it 33% of statistics are not made up... can't remember....... A Happy, Healthy and Prosperous New Year to all..

Mmm nice, oily warty melon lol

Quickthorn, you're not wrong and as you say it is very, very common forestry practice, I would go as far to say it it industry standard, however that doesn't mean to say it is right. I have, do and will spray more of the stuff than I care to admit and my personal belief is it isn't right. The more I've looked into it over the years the less I want to know as sometimes it provides me with the only work available that I would want to take on. Perhaps it's the things we can't generally see such as Mychorrizae, soil bacteria etc. And also the things that we won't be around long enough to see that we should be concerned about. One day maybe check out those links I posted. And actually that was a L/A that told me that-I don't think you should spray the root zone of trees until at least the third year after planting.

Go with your instincts Have a look at these for starters. http://www.abcbirds.org/abcprograms/policy/pesticides/Profiles/glyphosate.html http://www.rag.org.au/modifiedfoods/roundup

I don't think you should spray the root zone of trees until at least the third year after planting. Probably your best bet on finding relatively un-biased scientific data would be the Scandanavians, they don't like Glyphosate.

I am by no means an expert but for what it's worth here's my take on it: a) Longer growing seasons for ivy allow it to take advantage of trees that have lost their leaves in autumn. This means that the ivy can gain the upper hand and could possible smother the crown of even a healthy tree. A longer growing season for Ivy would surely mean a longer growing season for the host and I would have thought that any advantage Ivy has would be negligible as even on the brightest of days through the winter months there is very little useable light maybe a couple of hours a day? b) The increased CO2 in the atmosphere is beneficial to the ivy and is increasing its growth rate and enabling it to compete successfully with healthy trees that would have historically maintained the upper hand. Again I would have thought that any advantage Ivy has due to supposed increased CO2 levels would also give the host the same advantage. This would be quite an easy and interesting experiment to set up. Mmmm now wheres that old glasshouse:idea: c) Trees are suffering increased attacks from introduced pests and diseases, at the same time as being compromised by low water levels and as a result ivy is able to smother more trees. Maybe true in some cases but I think too specific in relation to the general explosion of Ivy we have seen in the past decade or so. And again if the trees are suffering low water levels then surely so is everything else although I suspect Ivy is a lot better equipped to deal with lack of water than the majority of our trees. I believe the real reason Ivy is flourishing is more to do with social and economic change. In the not too distant past Ivy would have been managed by browsing animals such as cattle, deer and horses. Native Deer no longer roam as I suspect they once did, due to habitat loss and busy roads, non native Deer that do freely roam are generally grazers and not browsers. Farmers and cattle men no longer drive their herds (or what's left of them) up and down the highways and byways or indeed cut the Ivy (and trees) as winter fodder for their livestock. Sheep (what's left of them) love Ivy if you cut it and chuck it in a field for them. The majority of Horses would no longer be allowed to eat it as horse owners believe it to be poisoinous and it most probably is a bit too rich for the thoroughbreds that seem to be the most common creature in the countryside these days. Householders that used to sweep the pavement outside their house and take a pride in the area around their property would have undoubtedly not allowed Ivy to encroach into the crowns of their or adjacent trees. Throw in as well the fact that diesel power has replaced man power in the seasonal work of hedging and ditching and you have Ivy left almost completley unmanaged and rampant. Hope this helps. p.s. As "Arborists" I believe it is our duty, that if the need arises to help out an otherwise healthy tree, it just take 5 or 10 minutes out of our day to stick in a few cuts to sever the vines and give the tree a fighting chance.

I suffered for about 2 or 3 years as well, I had a neoprene support which helped a lot, mainly due to keeping it warm I think. Find out for sure whether you should apply heat or cold to the area because you could end up doing more damage if you get it wrong. Obviously as has already been said do take care with your top handle saw and if you have to use a blower use two hands. Rest, rest and more rest, pain is your body telling you something. Heal thyself, think strong, be strong.

Any dust particles or fungal spores are potentially harmful to your lungs. Then there's the exhaust fumes but the biggy in my opinion is chain oil. I read somewhere years ago that Stihl reckoned the professional saw user can inhale up to 1 litre of chain oil per year. It is not a healthy profession in respect to your lungs at all. I dare say most of us on here are under physical exertion most of the time while working and therefore taking deeper breaths as well.

It is for me to:sad: I have never felled a Yew tree, if my suggestions for remedial work are not acceptable to the client I simply won't take on the job. I also make a point after surgery or hedge trimming to take and transplant as many cuttings as I can.