educated arborist

There Is Nothing Wrong with climbining on unce'd gear in the uk providing that: 1) it is fit for purpouse 2)it is subject to a 'thorough examination' by a 'compitant person' (a loler inspection) BEFORE it is put in to use. Its a real shitter that wrong & missleading information is posted on this forum, often by people who should know better! "CE marking" is a process that applies to a wide variety of products and one which manufacturers located in the EU or importers of goods into the EU must complete. The CE mark is affixed to the product as the final stage of this process and is effectively a statement from the manufacturer (or importer) that the process has been successfully completed and that the product meets the essential requirements of the relevant CE marking Directives. The principal point of CE marking is to provide a ‘level playing field’ of market requirements across the European Community. Effectively, this removes barriers to trade throughout the European Economic Area, allowing companies free access to markets in all the different countries without having to meet particular local requirements. It has sweet FA to do with the loler regs! other than that providing an item of personal lifting equipment is percured with a certificate of conformity it shall not need inspecting before first use! Mind you what is the point of posting up this factual, true information to allow everyone to make an informed choice/ purchase when someone will simply post that it is all wrong?

has Reg 9 been amended?? or any part of the regs for that matter?

i can get it 2 my door within 48 hours or so. Do you want some? Are you sugesting that there's something wrong with selling un-CE'd gear? Or do you just have problems sourcing it?

buy it from numerous uk retailers, who presumably sell it as accessory cord

You don't need a CE mark & for a loler inspection you don't need a ce mark on anything it just has to be fit for purpouse. CE marking binds retailers, wholesalers & manufac's. Armour prus is not ce marked but there is no reason not to use it as priction cord shold you wish. Y didn't you just ask your loler inspector?

hey drew the millatry ropes i knew of with sewn terminations are not strong enough for personal attachments & the terminations are designed for gear hauling only but they are curently designing/testing some. Also they did think that beal make one, sorry i couldn't be of more help

Will make some calls 2mr as i will be speaking to a couple of manufac's & post up after i have

it may not be visibley baggy, accidents are typically the result of a sequence of events its our job to mitigate them where posible. Most people would not climb on a rope which is spliced both ends & i hope that any who do/may can make an educated decision based on industry best practice & if that wasn't enough for them prehaps they will be able to pick the facts from the hear say & speculation in this thread

Jamie i would be more than happy to share some of my results with you PM me your details & we'll talk more. Certain ropes milk worse than others & your pre-milking before spliceing the other end will reduce the risk of a splice becomeing baggy moreover weakened. Construction type is a factor but they vary so much brand to brand that no strong correlations are aparent. Hollow milk shold be removed as it occours to mitigate against a climber coming off the end of his/her rope (it may look like youve got a metre or 2 to go but as you hit the hollow bit down you come) john i think you've miss read something High scale i've allready answered that 1: "the theory is that if a rope milked towards the middle is subjected to a long decent or two in the same direction then the milk would be milked to that end anyway"

there are a number of dynamic PPE ropes designed for millatry aplications which have/ can have stitched terminations, whether or not they'd be CE approved etc is something else

unfortunately the full extent & primary aim of the test is confidential but yes a bowline is also to be tested however a bowline can be untied & the milk. milked off the end & cut off where as on a rope spliced both ends this is not an option. No the milk was not mlked back away from the splice the theory is that if a rope milked towards the middle is subjected to a long decent or two in the same direction then the milk would be milked to that end anyway. The five decents were simulating/accelerating prolonged use. When maintaining my clients ropes i have experienced un re-moved hollow milk at the end of a line in excess of 1m within 6 months of purchase (more than enough to prevent a splice from working)

until i began working with rope manufacturors i thought the very same, the word kernmantle is German & means core & outer/sheath, and i recently forgot this which lead to great confusion. it would be wise for every one in our industry to stop miss-using this word IMO all testing which i have knowlege of (on arborist ropes widely used within the UK) has found the opposite, one or two of a batch of ten splices may be as strong as the sewn ones, sewn are much more consistant & yes this it is alot to do with the splicer/splice every one(including factory splices) has a different BS, but as i said earlyer this is not really of any relevence as splices are more that strong enough to meet CE standards etc. as i said earlyer this is all prety achedemic but i was refering to PPE splices being rated at 22kn (which they are not) & a well dressed knot maintains a perfectly acceptable BS true but rare and yes spot on not all ropes, splices or knots are not the same My testing into milking was not to establish wheather or not milking towards a splice weakens it as this is allready well documented, unfortunately the extent & primary aim of the test is confidential :blushing:sory:blushing:

double braid is kernmantle, by kernmantle do you mean rope which has a core which bears >60% of the load? tust think of a splice as a thumb trap, as a rope milks towards the splice the splice becomes alot weaker, i am currently testing a wide variety of 35m brand new spliced arborist ropes by setting up an anchor 18m high running through a rope guide. A 16.5 stone climber ascended to the anchor via a seperate SRT system & desended on the other double line on a prussic & bowline milking the rope towards the splice. This is repeated 5 times then the spliced end of the rope is tested to destruction. So far we have found a huge loss of strength >50% loss!

Not quite right or true but never mind, with the PPE safety factors which we work with this is not really of any concern I am currently researching termination options on arborist ropes but firstly you should not climb on both ends of a spliced rope this can cause the splice to fail. If the terminations are sewn it is not so bad but should still be avoided sewn terminations are stronger & much more consistant than splices, however, as i said earlyer this is prety irrelevent. splices are more practical, they are less likely to get stuck & most work well with a cambium saver/ rope guide etc. They are a little more expensive thats there only real drawback IMO

if he's paying more than £40/kit then get him to give me a ring on 07835 02 9923 or check out the link in the trade directory (loleruk) last month i took a client back on who had payeed for three of their chaps to go on the course (in case 1or2 failed) all three failed, on re-test only one passed. company has 15kits including rigging, it took the chap 5 days to do, all of a sudden £40/kit doesn't seem so expensive does it?

Check out my link in the trade directory or ring me on 07835029923 (loler uk) I will be loler inspecting in the SE next weekend (29-31st) price is £65/kit the 1st time then £40/kit from then on. price includes collection, marking inspection & return to your door.

thanks very much glad ur pleased, we try our best. I was considering posting on arb talk when i'm due to travel to what corner of the country for loler inspections a fortnight in advance what does every1 think? For those that don't know I carry out loler inspections nation wide with a repeat inspection costing only £40/kit. I collect youre equipment, inspect it & return it to your door with all the certificates etc either overnight or over a weekend. To enable me to carry out inspections so cheaply i group my clients together by area (NW, NE SW Midlands etc) for larger companies i can make a special vist but these are far & few between. I was considering posting on arb talk when i'm due to travel to what corner of the country for loler inspections a fortnight in advance what does every1 think? check out my link in the trade directory if u'd like to contact me sooner

if any cord is rated below 22kn then it should not be used in any configuration open or closed (with regards to best practice) which cords do you mean? many cords are plenty strong but have a lower melting point which is of much greater concern than the mbs which is 15kn at terminations anyway. i'd recomend the lyros 8mm cord over any other if that helps

nope its A ok as it stands, however closed systems are advisable regardless of your cord diameter

if my memory serves me the inventer of the blakes recomended friction cord to be 2mm larger than the rope for optimum performance. But what rupe said is spot on depends on knot, aplication & rope, just try 'em all out & decide for your self. In the uk the smallest permitted diameter for climbing lines & lanyards is 10mm and 8mm for friction cord

good question, in theory yes but will try to find out for certian 2mr there may be exceptions

yep 'clearly distinguishable'

hi i own & run loleruk and operate nation wide loler inspection service, the initial inspection will set you back £65/kit from then on it will be £40/kit for repeat inspections price is +vat but includes collection, marking of all equipment & return right back to your door either overnight or a weekend to save you taking climbers out of the tree. see the trade directory for a link to my website or call me on 07835 02 99 23

BS4043 clearly states: The diameter of the prepared root ball should be at least 10 times the diameter of the stem measured 1 m above the ground. its best to check that the supplier has adheered to this for the best chance of survival, however when i have transplanted some extra, extra heavy stadards (12m+ & 60cmg+) i have found some root balls to be lacking and found out that this is due to the tree spades being too small. I often wondered if any1 in the states has/ makes an extra big one? so best thing to do is probably measure the root ball as aposed to the dbh & work off a density of 1metric tonne/ m3

on the gate barrel or spine is fine as light as possible but deep clear enough to be easily read, dont forget to mark wheather or not they are ppe/ rigging mind! the manufactureor will have marked a unique serial number on the bina which is typically etched using a laser to burn off some of the anodising, this serial will tell you the date it was manufactured, its batch ident code & iff DMM it will tell you which laser marked it (they have 2) the serial does not, however, identify whether the bina is for use as ppe or rigging & loler requires that this is clearly visible!