D Mc

Al, has your Sidewinder always done this or has this started after you rerouted where the line comes out of the housing? The reason I ask is that I yank mine until it stops all the time and it has always been able to recoil without much fuss. David

And it will if you keep one-legging it on anything but short ascents. It is much better to share the workload with either a hand or knee ascender that has a foot strap for the other leg. If that is more gear than you want to deal with, at least place your other foot over the Pantin and other foot and push with both legs as you would in foot-locking. David

Me, too, for top ties. I also carry a small cut down wrench to snug up the Maillion. I have not had one open after tightening by hand, but on something like an anchor that will be out of sight for a large part of the day, it adds safety to use a wrench. Sorry, this is an old picture but the only one that shows the wrench. On my harness. Two wire gate Revolvers Two Petzl OK biners Two non-locking Climb Right Paddle biners Sidewinder Dave

This is the stuff I used, Tony. It is incredibly strong with the right amount of flexibility. Obviously the brand is not important as this poly material is used for many things. Dave

It appears that what people like in slack tending tethers are as personal as everything else we do. I have tried several different styles and keep coming back to this one. It also makes a very good and smooth corner trap and when not in use it can be rotated so that it is positioned with the loop down and in between the carabiner opening.

This is true. It is also good while throwing out thoughts, to keep things in perspective. This is not a big deal, just a deal. I rate it the same as wiping off a drop of sweat from your brow before it rolls into your eye. An annoyance that can be wiped away but life will go on either way. I do find it interesting how there seems to be a limit on just how much change people are willing to tolerate. So much changes so fast with barely a notice or even eager anticipation, while other things need to stay the same just because that is how it was.

It is no wonder you're confused, it is confusing. In other rope access industries, they use SRT to designate the use of a single rope rather than two ropes, which they do at times. In our industry, both SRT and DdRT utilize one rope. It is becoming apparent that people not in the know do not understand that we use only one rope in both systems. There is a leap in their logic that DdRT is safer due to it using two ropes, which is obviously not the case. Hopefully, this is clearer than mud?

The confusion is from just what you stated. SRT is just one more thing that has been brought over from other rope access industries and used an almost correct way. Like you said, Rupe, when other rope workers say SRT they actually mean one rope as opposed to two. Not so with us and the only reason that most of you that are reading this are not confused by this difference is that someone in the past has gone through a lengthy explanation on just what "WE" mean when we say SRT. Believe me it is still confusing to newbies and non tree workers that make rules and regulations based on what they think we are saying. It requires lots of explaining that just gets harder when trying to put it into writing. Why not just say what we mean when using it in our industry?

Thanks for starting this thread, Al. I will be interested on how everyone here feels about this. I can't even begin to count the number of things that were common terms when I first started climbing that have changed or no longer exist. Life is change. With the increase in SRT-WP use, there has also been increased training and exposure. It has become clear that the use of the word "single" is not working as it does not really convey what is so different about the two systems. After all DdRT also uses just one rope. The really big difference between the two is that in DdRT the rope moves with you as you work the tree. One end is anchored to you. Trying to manage the friction that this movement creates is what has led to development of pulley type anchors and redirects. In SRT one end is anchored to a non moving object. Whether ascending, descending or work positioning, you are moving along the rope but the rope remains stationary. This is the major fundamental difference between the two systems. This needs to be made clear right from the start. The words, static and dynamic, do perfectly describe the difference between these two systems but trying to use them would, I'm afraid, be too big of a leap and create further confusion due to their use as descriptive adjectives for rope types. Thus it has been proposed that a word such as "stationary" be used to replace "single" when discussing the meaning of the S in SRT. Dave

Change out the tether on the hand ascender to something just strong enough to keep you from losing it. You are not using it for life support. If you were to take a fall and it happened to take the load, both you (because it is tethered to the side of your harness) and the rope (because it is a toothed ascender) would suffer. Put corner traps or keepers on the carabiners to prevent possible cross-loading.

Pot meet kettle.

Thanks for the info, David. Life is good here in the " mountains " though we are learning that trees are not the only organisms where older often also means shorter.

Hahaha! I can almost see the gradually increasing forward body posture, accompanied by a slight threatening growl with each consecutive sentence. Nice job as always, David. Have there been any measurable or noteworthy changes within the tree or soil since the start of this project?

Two reasons. I think when Paul first tried it he was not convinced it was better than Bee-line. I'm guessing here, but probably second is cost. Bee-line works very well and can be purchased in bulk for a reasonable cost. Small changes in production cost help in keeping the overall product cost down for the consumer. Most climbers will be perfectly happy with the Bee-line. But because hitch feel is subjective and quite personal, it should be understood that the "best" hitch for one person might not be for the next.

Ha! I found that out the same way. Try some 8mm Armor-Prus, it slides through the Dogbone nicely, lasts for a good long time and has very good response. It is my favorite by quite a bit.

The force multiplier would still be there, but as you say, only to the point of tie-off. This " long arm " technique should be quite useful in the right circumstances but care and good judgment will be needed to prevent unanticipated loads. One of the greatest assets of SRWP is that the rope does not need to move in order for you to move. Understanding this opens up many unique opportunities for creative support. Unlike rigging where most times we are using larger and less flexible points for loading, the upper canopy flexes, a lot. Adding a pulley to the line at the point of angle change can increase the efficiency of the applied lateral force. We are so conditioned to needing our rope to move, that we often overlook some great alternatives. With the "long arm" one could be the use of an Alpine-butterfly tied at the right point of the climbing line and clipping into that. Once hauled up to the redirect point the fixed line would add strength and support to the branch, like a cable. The potential of the static-ness of the SRWP systems can be very challenging to recognize but oh so useful.

That sounds like it will be worth trying but heads-up on a couple of things. If I am understanding what you described correctly, the redirect point will be under more load, like a base tie. Also, by running the climbing line through the Revolver, you will be adding pull-back/lateral force, so it will not be loaded in compression. Add these two together and a redirect that would have supported you with a static choked-off line, may not. Please disregard if I misinterpreted what you are trying to do.

Hahaha! The Uni is not for everyone but they are great tools. I have not tried it yet but this add-on (see link) should tame things down for SRT use. Barrel attachment Although it has not been discussed don't overlook the Hitch Hiker. It is easy to use and can do anything you may need it to and it costs a lot less.

I have not. The Uni responds well to friction sharing tools and this is nice and compact. It also should be no problem to work out a way to attach a top clip-in point.

Anyone using the Unicender should take a look at this link. Barrel attachment

Yes, indeed. Interesting discussion. I would like to see a load rating on the RW but not a CE or EN if it limited the possibilities of its use. I would be happy just knowing it was up to par with the rest of my climbing gear. Think of all the complex configurations that a carabiner can be used for in life support with just a few guide lines in its proper use. Ratings should give us peace of mind without limiting potential. Dave

Why confused? I have heard several prominent climbers question this and it always leaves me with a feeling of doubt as to their motives. This is not a mystery! The Hitch Hiker is a full life-support tool with distinct points of attachment. Those being the Dogbone and the lower carabiner slot. Points of attachment must be rated for load. Having points of attachment that are far stronger than the expected working load is also an industry norm. This is done to ensure an adequate margin of safety and account for strength loss due to wear over the tool's anticipated working life. Everything we use is built stronger than the anticipated or achievable loads. Dave

LOL! It never ceases to amaze me how people that have not used an item can have such in-depth understanding on how it will work or how long it will last. I was the one that broke the spring on the other form. How could you have read that and not read how it happened? This was not the springs fault. I took the hole thing apart to see what was in there and then managed to wined the cord on the spool backwards during reassembly. That is the only reason it broke. These springs as you say, are out there and in use with thousands of hours proving that they can do what they were made to do. My new Sidewinder has been working great with no signs of wearing out. I can understand that this is not something everyone will want to use. Just make that decision for the correct reasons. Dave

I also do not like to just clip a carabiner into that big slot on the Uni. So I add a short piece of Bigshot tubeing. It makes a tight but flexible connection and removes the possibility of having the carabiner cross load. Dave

Not so much a pro or con, just an optional setup. I would often use the Uni as the upper ascender in a rope-walker setup. This works great, once up top, just remove the foot loop, unclip the Croll, kick out of the Pantin and go to work. You can make fast vertical gains by just reattaching the Pantin and stepping on that foot with your other foot so you are pushing up with both your legs like foot-locking. Dave