The economics of running an older harvester and forwarder in a farm forest

Would anyone be able to venture an opinion on the running costs of an older harvester/forwarder outfit?

Something like a Timberjack 770 harvester and an 810 forwarder, for example?

We're looking at the economics of taking on the thinning of our own softwood plantations, and these sort of machines are in the 'affordable if you squint your eyes up just right' range, but the ongoing running costs are something we need to put some sort of figures on.

For instance, how much diesel, oils, filters, bars, chains, etc might such an outfit consume to cut 1000 cubic meters of Norway Spruce in 1st/2nd thinnings and extract a distance of 2-300 meters on a level 'easy' site?

We're a couple of years away from starting the operation at the moment, but the difference between prices being offered for standing vs. roadside are prompting us to look at the DIY option.

Not sure the figures will add up is my first feeling.

How many years of 1000m3 of thinnings do you have?

The biggest cost is having a good harvester operator. They can make or break your production one who pushes too hard will cost you in down time and one who is too conservative will not get you enough wood to cover costs.

As for the harvester you looking at a 770 A or B? still going to be a big sum of money. Base unit will be ok but depending on hours work and drive pumps could be on their last legs and hard work to change in the field at least.

With the 810 forwarder rear bogies are easy nackered by overloading so something to be warey of.

Ok had a thought of some costs

I use to use 400l a week in a 1270b in 2nd thinnings. that was running it 16 hours ish a day 5 days a week.

Would often need 10l of hydraulic a week. assuming that you didn't bust a big hose.

Pain tanks would need topping up every other day. So about 10 liters of red/blue paint a week.

A grease cartage a week

10 chains would be on the machine that you would change to the next one then sharpen them on your days off.

Bars you want one on one spare. Depending on your facilities to straighten them you may need replacements. on stand by. Bigger trees normally bend them.

Service kit filters and all will be around 500 quid.

Gear oil for for bogies and gear boxes will be however many litres of EP90 it works out to be at 60 quid for 20litres.

Hydraulic oil ISO 42 will be a few hundred quid.

Engine oil will be 60 quid ish.

Seal kits for the feed motors on the head quite often need changing as they tend to weep a bit because they get a lot of abuse

Hoses do wear out so on a s/h machine 20% of the hoses that run under the crane piviot will need replacing as they will have rubbed and now leak.

Some ideas there. IF anything electrical goes on an older machine your really into problems. It took nearly 20 hours to fix a breaking problem in a 1070 once and that was with a full workshop and a JD engineer.

More of my ramblings to digest. Unless you have lots of wood to cut i'd say get handcutters and if the site will take it agri based forwarding. Also you got a market for the wood.

Hi Brushcutter!

Thanks for the comprehensive replies, there's lots of stuff to ponder there.

The operator would be ME!

I've never driven a timber harvester, but I have a LOT of years of operating farm machinery and moderately heavy plant behind me.

I mean, how hard can it be?

Spanner-twirling on big greasy heavy stuff holds no great fear for me, but electrical gremlins are a different prospect all right.

I'm into my 50's now and am pretty much 'retired' from conventional farming, and have almost the entire farm under forestry at this stage.

I spend my days rambling about the plantations armed with a pruning saw, a DBH tape, and aerosol tree marking paint.

That's when I'm not on a tractor flailing the ride lines and headlands or on a digger taking out the remnants of the old paddock fences or generally tidying up or maintaining/extending the internal roads.

I have CS30/31 and currently do all the tending/thinning in the hardwood sections using a quad and homebuilt forwarding trailer.

In short, I'm VERY keen on personally doing as much of the work in my forest as I can, and I'd really like to extend this to the softwoods too.

Swinging a chainsaw is all fine and dandy at the moment, but I'm getting older and the trees are getting bigger, and I figure a suitable harvester would keep me making sawdust for a good few years yet.

Realistically, we're looking at 600-800 cubic meters per annum for the reasonably foreseeable future so long as the machinery is up to it and I'm able to operate it.

There's also the prospect of purchasing a plot of semi-mature Sitka nearby, which would bump that figure up to 1000-1200 cubic meters per annum.

I'm well served by sawmills around here and have an excellent public road network going right through the place. There's even a motorway 2 miles away!

The mill purchasing managers I've talked to have been very keen to deal on whatever basis I decide to go with: standing in the wood, at roadside, etc.

I realise that these figures are ridiculously small from the point of view of the professional forestry contractor, but I'm just kicking the notion around to see if it could work under my particular situation.

For those volumes what about going for a stroke harvester head like Tapio 600 or Kesla on a digger platform, slower but more reliable and easier to maintain. For forwarder it has to be tractor trailer outfit, a purpose built machine would extract that volume in 2 weeks..an awful lot of expense (and potential heartache) for such small figures.

Good luck!

Well a harvester is basically a digger with extra buttons. The real thing about them is keeping the calibration good. This means checking what the sensors are telling you taking real world measurements. So you run out say a 3.7m saw log with a 175mm t/d the however the machine can over/under cut in length within the cutting window. You have to measure the log and enter real length compared to the measured. The same with log diameter. Often the machines come with a set of calipers that allow you to do this and dock with the computer and configure the calibration. All you have to do is check it and off you go.

Have you say a 7.5-8t digger? You could put a harvester head on that. Then a timber trailer behind a tractor. As already mentioned a stroke processor could be a cheaper easier option. There is a thread on here about them.

As

I mean, how hard can it be?

I knew a guy who did the night shift in the harvester i drove. He felled a tree up the side of the cab and took is sight of top knife rather than felling link. An oh dear brown pants moment as a few m3 of tree came towards him. Bonked the cab and took out every light on the roof bent every guard. Oh and it trying to avoid hitting the cab over rotated the head and burst many pipes.

Importantly him and the machine were fine. Just muggins here at to fix it in -22 degrees so he could get back in and work the night. To this day i hate felling up the side of the machine.

Lets say the learning curve is steep.

Have a look at this

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For the tonnage you are talking I would say the best thing to do is find agood local handcutter to help you with the felling and buy or convert a decent tractor for the extraction.A good 3pl winch and a trailer crane will do most sites,if its too bad for this setup then you need to use a good contractor.Good Luck.

For forwarder it has to be tractor trailer outfit, a purpose built machine would extract that volume in 2 weeks..an awful lot of expense (and potential heartache) for such small figures.

But tractors and trailers extract 0 if the ground is bad.

As already mentioned a stroke processor could be a cheaper easier option. There is a thread on here about them.

 

As

Stroke head would be fine in those volumes sure but boy cost does not compare favourably when productivity matters; often a £40k roller head is only undercut by a stroke head by £5k!

I would go for a excavator based harvester if your minds set on getting a harvester. I bought an old purpose built harvester a few years ago, the costs of keeping it going were never going to add up.

It'll also take a bit of time to become quick and cost effective at operating a harvester, something to remember in your costing's.

What about a converted JCB 814? they pop up on ebay quite often