fungi id

[David Humphries]

...........I have come from a few limited observations over a good few years on Aesculus and Acer to correlate P.squamosus with fairly rapid deterioration of stems at wound positions leading to big big failures and no evidence of any fungal action and no other explanation than progressive weakening by P.s. Whether this is weakening by the killing and consumption of living wood arund the wound or by destruction of the already dead wood I really can't say.

 

But P.s fruiting seems to be a precursor to failure, whatever the strategy.

 

Jules, perhaps this is the nub of it.

 

Your observations are on two of the weakest species for compartmentalising decay, particularly intense white rot like P. squamosus. Also Tilia can be placed within that group.

 

My field observations back that up but also suggest that stronger compartmentalisers (beech/oak/elm etc.....), can and do live with P. squamosus colonisations for many years.

 

So perhaps its parasitic leading to failure of certain tree species and more weakly parasitic/saprophytic on wounds and dead wood to varying degrees in other tree species.

 

No one hat fitting all.

 

The Aesculus below is quite obviously of the former persuasion.......

 

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[David Humphries]

........additionally, ofcourse we shouldn't be closed minded to decay related stem failure being associated with more than one decay culprit as with this 'Acer' which failed due to the white rot of P. squamosus but also facultative decay of Kretzschmaria deusta.

 

 

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[Kveldssanger]

I can always trust to learn from you both when you make a post. Good posts, guys!

[daltontrees]

I'm happy with that summary of the modus operandi of P. squamosus. It make sense that it operates differenty on different species.

 

When it is seen fruiting on clients' trees and I am doing a risk assessment, the client is usually expecting bad news and although I am comfortable enough advising against tree removal if the infection is slow-moving and/or inconsequential there is rarely the luxury of a climbing inspection and even if there is some sort of decay detection device could be needed to try and quantify the strength of the remaining parts. Again that's not an affordable luxury in most situations, and it's not within my scope of services.

 

Ultimately the risk assessment is coloured as much by prognosis as by diagnosis and by probability considerations including a fairly blunt foreseeability-of-harm recommendation. I don't think I'll ever have the ability to predict exactly how an infection is going to go, but since P.s. correlates well with tree age and wound size I am yet to see a fruiting site completely close over, and recommendations for action can at best suggest postponement of the inevitable. So many times this results in the client just wanting to get the problem dealt with right away, regardless.

 

Thanks for you thought-provoking comments. I will ponder the crucial issue, which right now seems to be whether P.s contributes to the prevention or retardation of CODIT wall 4 formation. I just need a few clients now to pay for climbing inspections or for me to get back on the tools more often.

[Island Lescure]

Sorry bit of a derail, though it is already a different post to the original... Is there a list of the strength of compartmentalization of different trees somewhere? I have never come across it and my views seem to differ from others...

I found this but don't know if it is accurate: The Good, the Bad, and the Rotten…Trees. | Tomlinson Bomberger

 

Great post by the way!

[David Humphries]

This list looks fairly comprehensive, which the author has put together from work by Lonsdale, Dujesiefken and personal observation.

 

The latter bit is key imo, having a look at the differing decay types at different development stages is where the ever growing knowledge develops.

 

Compartmentalization - Pruning - Landscape plants - Edward F. Gilman - UF/IFAS

 

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[justin131]

a wealth of information guys really interesting.

i,ve got another quick question about the tree in the op. if i remove the union then make the final cuts with a clean saw, will this be the end of it or is the infection likely to have spread as far as the trunk. not that id remove the tree but for the sake of future inspections.

there is at least 3 foot of healthy branch between the decay and the trunk.

[Island Lescure]

Cheers David. I will have to save that list. It has a few species that I know from the tropics which will come in handy in the future, if only just to compare.

 

a wealth of information guys really interesting.

i,ve got another quick question about the tree in the op. if i remove the union then make the final cuts with a clean saw, will this be the end of it or is the infection likely to have spread as far as the trunk. not that id remove the tree but for the sake of future inspections.

there is at least 3 foot of healthy branch between the decay and the trunk.

 

I think much more able persons may be able to answer that. I would need more information to give you a good guess. More pictures for a start. Once inoculated, whether a tree can stop, compartmentalize, the fungus or not depends on many factors; vitality, species, extent of damaged cells, how much exposed surface there is....

[Gary Prentice]

David, I don't have the experience to question either you or Schwartze/Butin, but I have come form a few limitd observations over a good few years on Aesculus and Acer to correlate P.squamosus with fairly rapid deterioration of stems at would positions leading to big big failures and no evidence of any fungal action and no other explanation than progressive weakening by P.s. Whether this is weakening by the killing and consumption of living wood arund the wound or by destruction of the already dead wood I really can't say.

 

But P.s fruiting seems to be a precursor to failure, whatever the strategy.

 

Jules, perhaps this is the nub of it.

 

Your observations are on two of the weakest species for compartmentalising decay, particularly intense white rot like P. squamosus. Also Tilia can be placed within that group.

 

My field observations back that up but also suggest that stronger compartmentalisers (beech/oak/elm etc.....), can and do live with P. squamosus colonisations for many years.

 

So perhaps its parasitic leading to failure of certain tree species and more weakly parasitic/saprophytic on wounds and dead wood to varying degrees in other tree species.

 

No one hat fitting all.

 

The Aesculus below is quite obviously of the former persuasion.......

 

.

 

Jules/David,

 

I'd be agreement with all of the above, with more practical than academic experience I'd hazard a guess that most of my meetings with this fungus has been after a failure or such extensive decay that we've been removing the host.

 

I can't think of a single instance where the host hasn't been sycamore or horsechestnut, with lime to a lessor extent.

[justin131]

I think much more able persons may be able to answer that. I would need more information to give you a good guess. More pictures for a start. Once inoculated, whether a tree can stop, compartmentalize, the fungus or not depends on many factors; vitality, species, extent of damaged cells, how much exposed surface there is....

 

species is elm it's a very healthy tree apart from this small area around an old pruning wound just above an inclusion.

 

the fruit body shown in the photo in the op is at the top of the inclusion shown in the photo below. everything below it looks perfectly healthy.

 

cheers