skills training - (UK) tax deductible or not?

[SteveA]

p.s.... have you tried getting through on their telephone scam hotline lately?!!.... at least 65 million phone calls per annum with many on hold for at least 30 minutes, some for over an hour. It's a massive money spinner.

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

If you've done nowt wrong then you've done nowt wrong. It really is as simple as that.

 

Our recent problem was (according to HMRC) a late filing penalty for a partnership return. We refused to pay the fine because it was entirely due their own administration errors.... so the threatening letters commenced and promptly escalated to many thousands of £'s!!.... and then the debt collection agency (instructed by HMRC) were threatening us, phoning us, etc.

 

So of course.... the debt was written off by HMRC and admitted it was their fault.... but no apology.... and because they are so rubbish at communication and basic admin the threatening letters, etc continued. What a joke!!

 

Sorry, ranting!...

cheers, steve

 

Bullying bar stewards trying to bash the little man whilst cosying up with the corps.

 

I'm dealing with a cretin that can't read. I've sent him documents as requested, he's misread, misunderstood and misrepresented what I've sent.

 

I've corrected him, he's acknowledged and apologised, then repeated his previous misrepresentation.

 

I've then corrected him again, which he's acknowledged and apologised for, then..... Guess what.... Done it again! On 1 issue this cycle was repeated 4 times!

 

I have neither the time, patience nor temperament to politely tell "an expert" how to do their job but I will not roll over and give in despite the hassle and stress.

Edited January 27, 2016 by kevinjohnsonmbe
typo

[SteveA]

Bullying bar stewards trying to bash the little man whilst cosying up with the corps.

 

I'm dealing with a cretin that can't read. I've sent him documents as requested, he's misread, misunderstood and misrepresented what I've sent.

 

I've corrected him, he's acknowledged and apologised, then repeated his previous misrepresentation.

 

I've then corrected him again, which he's acknowledged and apologised for, then..... Guess what.... Done it again! On 1 issue this cycle was repeated 4 times!

 

I have neither the time, patience nor temperament to politely tell "an expert" how to do their job but I will not roll over and give in despite the hassle and stress.

 

Wow! At least you actually got an apology! They must like you....

[agg221]

I was told that if you were not in tree work (for example you are an employed accountant)and would still do the course then it isn't tax deductible.

 

e.g. The PA1 course for spraying your own garden/ non commercial fields even though you may use it for work at some point isn't deductible. Could you prove you had to do that course for work?

 

If you can present a case that the course is needed for you to work then it's deductible

 

If that's the case I should be fine. Although I am employed primarily in another business, my field is a registered agricultural holding and I am a registered sole trader. So far I haven't managed to make a profit, but that isn't really the point (must be all these training costs )

 

Alec

[agg221]

If you've done nowt wrong then you've done nowt wrong. It really is as simple as that.

 

Our recent problem was (according to HMRC) a late filing penalty for a partnership return. We refused to pay the fine because it was entirely due their own administration errors.... so the threatening letters commenced and promptly escalated to many thousands of £'s!!.... and then the debt collection agency (instructed by HMRC) were threatening us, phoning us, etc.

 

So of course.... the debt was written off by HMRC and admitted it was their fault.... but no apology.... and because they are so rubbish at communication and basic admin the threatening letters, etc continued. What a joke!!

 

Sorry, ranting!...

cheers, steve

 

I had pretty much the same issue over late filing last year - I ultimately got a written apology for the treatment I had received, the 'debt' written off and a payment in consideration of their actions.

 

If it helps in future, I am happy to share the route to achieving this, but obviously not on the open forum (drop me a PM).

 

Alec

[SteveA]

I had pretty much the same issue over late filing last year - I ultimately got a written apology for the treatment I had received, the 'debt' written off and a payment in consideration of their actions.

 

If it helps in future, I am happy to share the route to achieving this, but obviously not on the open forum (drop me a PM).

 

Alec

 

You had an apology AND a payment in consideration?!!!!

Did I just read that right???

Didn't know you could make a claim.

cheers, steve

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

extract of latest correspondence:

 

Dear Mr X,

 

to follow up on the telephone conversation yesterday relating to wether training courses are a valid inclusion as a trading expenditure, I forward the following information in support of the position as I interpret it:

 

It is a legal / statutory requirement that suitable training be completed prior to using a chainsaw. In addition to the general requirements of the HaSaWA 1974 “All people using equipment at work must be adequately trained to ensure health and safety in its use, supervision or management” and PUWER - it is expressly and specifically stated by the HSE that chainsaw operations require additional training as specified links provided below.

 

Training and competence - Work equipment and machinery

 

http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg317.pdf

 

Chainsaw qualifications are further subject to mandatory, time specified “refresher / update” schedules in order to comply with the legislative requirement.

 

You stated as justification for disallowing training courses that you “considered” them inappropriate due to the uncertain nature of their value to the business?

 

I am confused by the logic you appear to be advancing since, for example, a tool may be considered as a deductible expense but there is no way in which to quantify the “value” a tool might bring to the business nor the “life” it may be used for.

 

HMRC’s BIM42526 appears to me to be absolutely clear.

 

BIM42526 - Specific deductions: administration: own training courses

 

“Provided it is incurred wholly and exclusively for the purposes of the trade carried on by the individual at the time the training is undertaken, expenditure on training courses attended by the proprietor of a business (either as a sole trader, or in partnership with others) with the purpose of up-dating their skills and professional expertise is normally revenue expenditure, which is deductible from the profits of the business"

 

In the face of, what appears to me, to be an overwhelming weight of evidence to support the position that training costs ARE an eligible deduction, and since you have presented only that which you “consider” to be the position, I would greatly appreciate any links to HMRC policy or documentation upon which you have based your consideration.

 

Wether this is brought to relevance in regard to our discussions of historic circumstances, or as it may bear on future tax returns is equally relevant and I appreciate your written statement so as to establish a record of the subject.

[SteveA]

Hey Kevin, now you just need to wait for them not to respond, or wait for them to respond but not log it on their system putting you back to square one. You also need to wait for them to instruct the bailiffs to start threatening you, etc, etc.

cheers, steve

[JLA Arborists]

Make sure your squared away with your books then put it in. If they say no what you lost? If the say yes winner and get them courses book on an annual basis 😉

[inthewoods]

Kevin, will you be my accountant? Please :-)