Patio partially within RPA

[roythegrass]

I wish to lay a raised garden patio about half of which comes within the root protection area of an oak tree with a TPO. I propose using permeable block paving on a sharp sand bed which it turn would lay on Terram Geocell over a Geotextile. This would comply with the ‘no-dig’ requirement within the RPA.

Two questions.

1) Whatever the construction of the patio it must be contained within a fixed edging or kerb to prevent lateral spread. Such edging would have to be laid onto a concrete footing –albeit only 150mm or so deep- which defeats the no-dig principle. Any observations would be appreciated.

2) Would I need to submit my proposal and drawings to the LA for planning permission or submit an Application for Tree works to trees with a TPO. Or, indeed, would the local tree officer approve/disapprove without a formal application?

For the moment I would prefer not to discuss the matter with the tree officer.

Thanks in advance.

Roy

[Chris at eden]

Hi Roy,

 

You will need to provide detail to the LPA if a planning application is needed. If the patio is to the rear then it should be permitted development, if its at the front and it exceeds 5.5 square metres it may need planning. If at the front but leading to a soakaway then again should be PD.

 

As Ed said, any pruning to the tree would require a TPO app (and consent) including the roots. If you build it as a proper no dig surface then you may get away with just keeping the TO informed but you can't prune or damage any part of the tree.

 

There are a few people on here (myself included) who could help you with a written specification for the on dig patio if you wish. As Ed said the key would be to support the kerbs with stakes so they sit on the existing ground level.

 

Hope this helps,

[Chris at eden]

One other thing. If the incursion into the RPA is very minor you may (and I stress the word may) be able to justify some hand digging and root pruning.

[daltontrees]

I have started to use mixed plastic recycled wood for a project, slightly more expensive than wood but lasts forever. Usually in black, grey or brown. Every shape and size you can imagine, including pointed stakes. There's reinforced boards too. A cheap and quick and effective alternative to kerbing on founds would be boards and stakes, and you cna hand dig to find stake positions that miss any substantial roots then cut boards to suit. I am waiting to see just how big a span I can get between stakes without excessive bulge, the advice so far from Kedel Mixed Plastic Lumber - Kedel.co.uk is 450mm for 40 x 120 unreinforced boards holding loose earth.

 

There always appears to be a gap in the rules. On the one hand you have to apply for anything that you know would damage a tree including its roots (and this means damage during construction AND root suffocation afterwards by inappriopriate surfacing). On the other hand if you crack on without permission, not intending to damge the tree but what you did does damage the tree, you could be prosecuted. The Council might have to show the damage was wilful.

 

For me it would depend if it was my tree or a customer's. And how much of the RPA will be paved over. block paviours are possibly only about 5% permeable, maybe enough for gas exchange but not enough for water and pretty much eliminating future uptake of organic nitrates.

 

I recall that cellweb did an edging that is designed to allow breathing. But if not it recommends that the cellweb be fixed with steel pinsd and if this is done right it should retain the patio a bit against spread, making the job required of the edging much less.

[slack ma girdle]

Provided the patio does not exceed 20% of the rpa, and it is non ground invasive, then you will be fine.

You have to insure that nothing can leach into the ground that can damage the roots, and it is gas and water permable.

[Chris at eden]

The Council might have to show the damage was wilful.

 

Hi Jules,

 

Not that I am doubting you but why? It is my understanding the TPO contravention is strict liability?

 

Cheers,

[roythegrass]

Thanks for the input folks. My scanner is playing up so bear with me for a couple of days and I'll post my drawings of the proposed patio, materials to be used and it's location to the tree.

I would be fine using a timber edging resting on the surface but would not stakes spaced at say 600mm be interpreted as 'damaging' the roots?

Roy

[Mortimer Firewood]

I wish to lay a raised garden patio about half of which comes within the root protection area of an oak tree with a TPO. I propose using permeable block paving on a sharp sand bed which it turn would lay on Terram Geocell over a Geotextile. This would comply with the ‘no-dig’ requirement within the RPA.

Two questions.

1) Whatever the construction of the patio it must be contained within a fixed edging or kerb to prevent lateral spread. Such edging would have to be laid onto a concrete footing –albeit only 150mm or so deep- which defeats the no-dig principle. Any observations would be appreciated.

2) Would I need to submit my proposal and drawings to the LA for planning permission or submit an Application for Tree works to trees with a TPO. Or, indeed, would the local tree officer approve/disapprove without a formal application?

For the moment I would prefer not to discuss the matter with the tree officer.

Thanks in advance.

Roy

 

How big a patio

[Jesse]

I wish to lay a raised garden patio about half of which comes within the root protection area of an oak tree with a TPO. I propose using permeable block paving on a sharp sand bed which it turn would lay on Terram Geocell over a Geotextile. This would comply with the ‘no-dig’ requirement within the RPA.

Two questions.

1) Whatever the construction of the patio it must be contained within a fixed edging or kerb to prevent lateral spread. Such edging would have to be laid onto a concrete footing –albeit only 150mm or so deep- which defeats the no-dig principle. Any observations would be appreciated.

2) Would I need to submit my proposal and drawings to the LA for planning permission or submit an Application for Tree works to trees with a TPO. Or, indeed, would the local tree officer approve/disapprove without a formal application?

For the moment I would prefer not to discuss the matter with the tree officer.

Thanks in advance.

Roy

First things, is it your tree, or a clients ? Are you being paid to create the installation.

Edited June 9, 2015 by Jesse
more info

[Jesse]

First things, is it your tree, or a clients ? Are you being paid to create the installation.

 

The reason i ask, if it's your tree, it will be a first that the owner of a TPO'd tree demonstrates such concern, if its a client and you submit a spec drawn up from advice from arbtalk members you will need to ensure you are qualified and insured to a PI level to submit the specification, otherwise bite the bullet and pay a professional to spec the job and be covered by their own PI , best advice so far