tensioning rigging lines

[tree-fancier123]

I'm after any thoughts regarding using a separate winch (harken type) strapped on the tree above a separate bollard for tensioning the line prior to cutting, as Hobbs, GRCS etc.

In the Stein RCW3001 thread Clearview trees has posted a picture of the set up.http://arbtalk.co.uk/forum/rigging-roping/78774-new-rcw-3001-stein-3.html

 

What I want to know is - if the separate winch is used to tension the rigging line what method(s) would enable that tension to then be transferred to the bollard to avoid shock loading the winch?

 

I understand the smartwinch LD2 LD2 Rigging-System

 

has a rope grab, so the winch can be swapped for the bollard under tension, to avoid shock loading the winch when cutting huge lumps.

The LD2 product solves my query, but at £2200 + vat.

 

A separate winch and bollard can be had for about £1000. But how to fabricate or improvise a rope grab to transfer the tension?

[Nigel]

The STEIN RCW-3001 allows the operator to use the bollard independently of the winch and should a lifting / tensioning process be required the winch can be attached within seconds. The RCWINCH can also be integrated into the system during a lowering procedure should it be required.

 

Unlike other Winch Style Bollards the RCWINCH does not support the load during a lowering procedure; the load is supported on the bollard as the winch is attached to the lowering line independently through a friction hitch and winch line. This allows the load to be fully supported on the bollard and not the winch. Once the load has been winched to its desired position, the full weight is then easily transferred to the main rigging line, by reversing the winch and separating the two lines. At which point the suspended load can be safely lowered, independently and unimpeded by the winch.

[tree-fancier123]

Thanks Nigel, 2 things I think are not optimum about the Stein RCW-3001 are that the friction hitch removal after tensioning must add a few seconds compared to a rope grab type system and secondly the winch unit itself looks inferior to the Harken on GRCS.

Other than that I have to say as a complete system for £750 or so it is a great buy for someone like me just starting out. Spending £2600 on a Smart winch LD2 would mean less for big chipper or Sunday roast, whatever

[tree-fancier123]

Looking at how the RCW 3001 is constructed one solution could be to use a separate Harken or other good self tailing winch e.g Lewmar on a separate strap above, or below? the bollard with 20 feet of rope separate from the rigging line with a rope grab on the end, maybe a bit of extra clutter but cheaper than the purpose built LD2 by 50%

[Loler UK]

you can do the very same thing on the smart winch but it is allot more money, you place you mainline on the outer steel bollard and your 'helper rope' (i like to use a 5m tennex tech dead eye) to the winch, i'm in the process of producing a big SW video to show people the intricacies of the devoce it should be out early so WTS

[clearviewtrees123]

I'm after any thoughts regarding using a separate winch (harken type) strapped on the tree above a separate bollard for tensioning the line prior to cutting, as Hobbs, GRCS etc.

 

In the Stein RCW3001 thread Clearview trees has posted a picture of the set up.http://arbtalk.co.uk/forum/rigging-roping/78774-new-rcw-3001-stein-3.html

 

 

 

What I want to know is - if the separate winch is used to tension the rigging line what method(s) would enable that tension to then be transferred to the bollard to avoid shock loading the winch?

 

 

 

I understand the smartwinch LD2 LD2 Rigging-System

 

 

 

has a rope grab, so the winch can be swapped for the bollard under tension, to avoid shock loading the winch when cutting huge lumps.

 

The LD2 product solves my query, but at £2200 + vat.

 

 

 

A separate winch and bollard can be had for about £1000. But how to fabricate or improvise a rope grab to transfer the tension?

In my setup I use my bollard for dropping out bigger sections or stuff that has room to swing down.

The winch I use on branches I want to tip tie and winch back into the tree and drop out butt first. At know point do I try and use them both on a single lowering line. I must say I've dropped some pretty hefty stuff on my winch bollard too. If I can offer any advice, it's buy the right one the first time. I have to say it's the grcs all the way. No messing around with prusik and separate winches, it's so quick and controlled and you've paid for it with one decent job.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Arbtalk

[tree-fancier123]

thanks for the info ClearViewTrees, interesting to know you've got away with dropping some heavy bits on your winch.

I get your point about right tool for the job, but I think what you've got, then having the winch strapped on below and some form of lever operated rope grab welded onto the bollard (similar to that on LD2 device pictured in link at start of thread) and you have the best of both worlds, saving about £1400, tension on winch, rope grab operated, rope off winch onto bollard, rope grab off. Of course it means finding, or making, the lever operated rope grab.

 

You say one decent job and it's paid for - nice work if you can get it!

[johnanderton]

I've a grcs for past 5 years & generally the winch will handle they type of wood that you need to pre- tension to either winch back or turn or lift & balance , it's also good to tension up limbs then take off some wraps just so it doesn't slip then the groundy can also let it run after the piece has turned where you want it , really really big stuff just put the solid bollard in .

I havnt seen the smart winch or others work myself but the harken winch is a great tool

[Old Mill Tree Care]

Thanks Nigel, 2 things I think are not optimum about the Stein RCW-3001 are that the friction hitch removal after tensioning must add a few seconds compared to a rope grab type system and secondly the winch unit itself looks inferior to the Harken on GRCS.

Other than that I have to say as a complete system for £750 or so it is a great buy for someone like me just starting out.

 

 

I have a Stein RC3002 and attaching the lifting arm and disconnecting it does use a few seconds compared to using a GRCS but the reality is that it is only a few seconds. It doesn't make a difference.

 

You're comment about the quality and strength of the winch on the RCW is a valid point.

However, I used to work on yachts and when you see a sail on a big boat flog accidentally and shocking load the winch (70 tons easily) you'd appreciate just how strong a winch is. Winches never break, the boat does.

In tree work you will destroy the tree or rip a yacht winch off the mount plate long before the winch itself breaks.

Anyway, you'd always disconnect the RCW winch before the branch is cut.

 

My point is, I'm sure the Stein RCW winch is way more than adequate for our purposes and the device to choose is the one that ticks most boxes for your working style.

For me it would be the RCW.

 

If only I could sell my beloved RC3002 Dual!

[tree-fancier123]

thanks for the reply Old Mill - impressed with the 70 ton shock load on a sailing winch. Those Harken 46 winches alone are around £800, plus time to fabricate a bit of half inch plate for the mount, or pay for it. Seems one of those and a separate RC3000 would be fine, all for under £1200. Maybe a bit of clutter carrying two units and sets of straps, but with a saving of £1400 on Smartwinch or GRCS seems worth it.

In fact even at £800 for a 'bare' winch, if they really can take some punishment circa 70 ton it seems safe enough just to drop big timber with them too and dispense with the bollard ( providing the mounting is substantial).

Edited March 1, 2015 by tree-fancier123