Safety - say it like it is...

[Shane]

wrnsi - do you think there were less accidents or did people just stop reporting them?

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

Few "accidents" just happen, they are as a result of carelessness.

 

H&S doesn't prevent carelessness, it's a massive unproductive industry built up around human nature.

 

The last factory I worked at complied with all H&S criteria, brought in consultants, etc, etc. I should know as I was in charge of it weirdly enough. But they were still having too many minor injuries which really disrupted the production line. So the bosses came up with an idea that if there were no reportable injuries over a four week period, on the Friday of the fourth week they would stop a couple of hours early, send out to the local Chinese and the staff would have a take away at their expense. The number of reportable accidents fell by over 90%, no consultants, no surveys, no expense other than a take away bill on the months when they achieved it and that was more than covered in increased productivity.

 

The incentive thing is sometimes worth a try but human nature, being as it is, could just have easily resulted in pressure from within the workforce not to report that which might jeopardise the incentive thus having the unintended consequence of driving down reporting rather than driving down accidents. Not suggesting that was the case but you'll see how it could happen?

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

wrnsi - do you think there were less accidents or did people just stop reporting them?

 

Boom!

[AA Teccie (Paul)]

I beg to differ with wrsni,

 

I would welcome an annual site visit from an experienced 'Safety' guy who could offer impartial advice on safe methods, compliance etc.

 

I consider our approach to be safety conscious balanced with economic common sense.

I also have no doubt that an outsider may be able to offer suggestions on how we can be safer still.

 

We all have a moan about the safety fairies from time to time but as the saying goes

'If you think Health and Safety is a pain.. try having an accident'

 

Whatever people may think of the stories in The Sun, Express or 'the bloke down the pub' Safety legislation is exactly that LEGISLATION - not negotiable.

 

You can hate Safety guys all you like but you may feel different if you best friend ends up dead and you are sharing a prison cell with a gay gorilla due to your negligence.

 

Safety Steve - I would be happy to be a guinea pig (no lettuce though) - better to hear it from a paid consultant than from the HSE gestapo.

 

Rant over

 

I

 

Hi Shane, I applaud your approach here.

 

Whilst having a 'retained' H&S Advisor can improve safety performance and H&S compliance, and indeed serve you well in the (unlikely) event of an accident / incident, so too can having an accredited business, e.g. ARB Approved. Also both can potentially bring commercial benefits, or certainly more easily satisfy certain contractual requirements for 'competent H&S advice' etc.

 

Should you wish to know more please give me a call.

 

However, this feels like I'm 'hi-jacking' someone else's post (apologies Steve) so I'll depart n say n'more.

 

Cheers..

Paul

[Shane]

Things are not always as they seem.

 

I worked for an insurance company decades ago where some consultants came up with a monitoring/incentive system.

 

Any question from a customer had to get a response within 48 hours (the target was 99.5%). The work force met it, by picking off questions that were approaching the 48 hour mark, BUT the supervisors told them to IGNORE anything that was over 48 hours -

better to spend your time avoiding an additional black mark than WASTING time on something that was already a 'miss'.

 

The result of this - anyone with a problem that wasn't answered in 48 hours were ignored until they raised a formal complaint (then it was another areas problem).

 

Did you know that 40% of all sick days are on a Monday or Friday!

[wrsni]

wrnsi - do you think there were less accidents or did people just stop reporting them?

 

No chance, they weren't interested in paper exercises one way or the other.

 

As with any manual production in the UK they had to run a really tight ship to survive, even someone leaving a machine for 5 minutes to get a sticking plaster on a cut had the production manager reaching for the Gaviscon for himself. Someone having to go to A&E for a stitch or even just a steri-strip on a cut caused absolute mayhem.

 

That's the point, they needed proper practical effective solutions, the entire H&S industry was unable to deliver it.

 

They could charge though, boy could they charge!

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

No chance, they weren't interested in paper exercises one way or the other.

 

As with any manual production in the UK they had to run a really tight ship to survive, even someone leaving a machine for 5 minutes to get a sticking plaster on a cut had the production manager reaching for the Gaviscon for himself. Someone having to go to A&E for a stitch or even just a steri-strip on a cut caused absolute mayhem.

 

That's the point, they needed proper practical effective solutions, the entire H&S industry was unable to deliver it.

 

They could charge though, boy could they charge!

 

Based only on what you've described above, the problem would appear not to be the (minor) accidents but the total absence of any redundancy / resilience in the work force!

 

Seems a shame the local management at the time / on the scene couldn't see the benefit of having some cross-trained reserve manning ready to deploy to fill a temporary gap rather than halting the line.

[Shane]

No chance, they weren't interested in paper exercises one way or the other.

 

As with any manual production in the UK they had to run a really tight ship to survive, even someone leaving a machine for 5 minutes to get a sticking plaster on a cut had the production manager reaching for the Gaviscon for himself. Someone having to go to A&E for a stitch or even just a steri-strip on a cut caused absolute mayhem.

 

That's the point, they needed proper practical effective solutions, the entire H&S industry was unable to deliver it.

 

They could charge though, boy could they charge!

 

Sounds like a dodgy outfit.

Like all industries there' good and bad. It just seems the crap tabloids just publicise extreme negatives all the time.

 

Safety, as you say, is common sense but the number and severity of accidents dictates (as does the law) that safe practices must be followed.

 

There was a thread the other day about climbers refusing to go up a tree they considered dangerous. The Safety legislation provides them guys with some ammunition. In earlier times they would have been sacked immediately with no come-back.

 

I personally feel, on balance, that the enforcement of safe working pracice is

a bloody good idea, the abandonment of it is a potentially bloody idea.

[Shane]

Based only on what you've described above, the problem would appear not to be the (minor) accidents but the total absence of any redundancy / resilience in the work force!

 

Seems a shame the local management at the time / on the scene couldn't see the benefit of having some cross-trained reserve manning ready to deploy to fill a temporary gap rather than halting the line.

 

Bingo!

[tree-fancier123]

there's enough people already trying to feed themselves on paperwork stuff - be more ambitious - if you've got an engineering background start up a british firm to rival Echo or Stihl. Britain hasn't got people who are interested in real engineering and production, only people after the rules and regulations cushy comforts.

Edison worked 18 hours a day - a real man and his contemporary Tesla was just as industrious. Those icons worked so hard. Forget the paperwork crap

Edited January 29, 2015 by tree-fancier123