Pantin and VT

[tommer9]

Mark an lurcherman..... For the first 10-15 feet i find that the VT wont self tend, but after that there is generally enough rope hanging down for the weight of the rope itself to self tend i find. Maybe i have just got lucky. I am told that the VT is a fickle knot, and that some days it will be perfect, and the next it needs tending or dressing regularly, but i dont really have that problem. If anything, it is too loose rather than too tight, but i prefer having to dress the hitch rather than tend to the rope.

[tommer9]

And what is an ART saver?

 

Excuse my ignorance!

 

Try here mateART - Treeworker.co.uk

 

and herehttp://arbtalk.co.uk/forum/climbers-talk/8147-art-friction-saver-instalation.html

Edited July 20, 2009 by tommer9
wrong hyperlink

[Mark Bolam]

How does that work?, the second pulley thing you mention? And what is an ART saver?

 

Excuse my ignorance!

 

The ART saver, or ropeguide, is the posh cambium saver with a pulley in it.

 

Set your main anchor with this as normal. Install a 2nd pulley just below/to the side of it. Clip this pulley to the tail end of your rope. Keep it all near you as you descend. For re-ascending simply pull down on the tail. Hey presto! You have a mechanical advantage for pulling yourself up the tree, and your VT is advanced automatically!

 

Great for long re-ascents, but does use twice as much rope and can over complicate some jobs. Hope I've explained it OK. I think Rupe explained it to me, and is a Treemagineers trick, I think.

[Lurcherman]

Pics please Mark!! Is a saver another name for a rope guide? Where does the second pulley go? Sorry for all the questions. I'm intrigued!!!

 

 

 

Ditto!!!

[Lurcherman]

The ART saver, or ropeguide, is the posh cambium saver with a pulley in it.

 

Set your main anchor with this as normal. Install a 2nd pulley just below/to the side of it. Clip this pulley to the tail end of your rope. Keep it all near you as you descend. For re-ascending simply pull down on the tail. Hey presto! You have a mechanical advantage for pulling yourself up the tree, and your VT is advanced automatically!

 

Great for long re-ascents, but does use twice as much rope and can over complicate some jobs. Hope I've explained it OK. I think Rupe explained it to me, and is a Treemagineers trick, I think.

 

 

Yeah, got that, been using ART Rope Guide for about 18 months.

 

I understand the pulley thing now, I use a DMM roller krab off a sling near my anchor point and set up as you described, if I know I'm in for some long 'up-and-downs'!

 

It gives a 3xMA but ascent is slow because of this. I usually get the brash rat to pull on my line while I just sit there, have a fag and a drink and wait for him to pull me to the top!

[Mark Bolam]

Yeah, got that, been using ART Rope Guide for about 18 months.

 

I understand the pulley thing now, I use a DMM roller krab off a sling near my anchor point and set up as you described, if I know I'm in for some long 'up-and-downs'!

 

It gives a 3xMA but ascent is slow because of this. I usually get the brash rat to pull on my line while I just sit there, have a fag and a drink and wait for him to pull me to the top!

 

Lovin' your style!

[Rupe]

The ART saver, or ropeguide, is the posh cambium saver with a pulley in it.

 

Set your main anchor with this as normal. Install a 2nd pulley just below/to the side of it. Clip this pulley to the tail end of your rope. Keep it all near you as you descend. For re-ascending simply pull down on the tail. Hey presto! You have a mechanical advantage for pulling yourself up the tree, and your VT is advanced automatically!

 

Great for long re-ascents, but does use twice as much rope and can over complicate some jobs. Hope I've explained it OK. I think Rupe explained it to me, and is a Treemagineers trick, I think.

 

I'm not sure thats really "self tending" its works but you are still having to pull the rope through the knot, just so happens that its all done with the same movement that is pulling you up the tree.

 

I find true self tendign only really happens when quite high up and walking back in on a limb. The vt has gone slack enough and there is enough weight of rope below you.

 

If the vt is self tending while pulling yourself up a vertical rope in free space away from the trunk then I would think that the vt is too slack and might not grip in an emergency. This scenario is where a pantin on one foot is a great help, it saves burning your arms out.

 

Against the trunk or on spikes it is still usefull but maybe not as much. If you are in free space with spikes on then its even better because footlocking the tail end is not possible with spikes, or if it is its not much fun!

[tommer9]

 

I find true self tendign only really happens when quite high up and walking back in on a limb. The vt has gone slack enough and there is enough weight of rope below you.

 

If the vt is self tending while pulling yourself up a vertical rope in free space away from the trunk then I would think that the vt is too slack and might not grip in an emergency. This scenario is where a pantin on one foot is a great help, it saves burning your arms out.

 

 

That is about the bottom line- esp the emergency thing- it is something i need to see to, as there have been a few times when i have thought "lucky that caught in time":ohmy:

[Jamie]

i obviously need to tweak my VT, as it doesn't self tend, i find it plenty quick,

 

I'm using arbormaster and 10mm beal stuff just now till it runs out.

 

any wrap braid combos that work.

 

Jamie

[Mark Bolam]

That is about the bottom line- esp the emergency thing- it is something i need to see to, as there have been a few times when i have thought "lucky that caught in time":ohmy:

 

There's the thing.

 

I've increased the no. of braids after some hairy experiences, so true self tending ain't happening.

 

I'll go for the Pantin thing and see how I get on.