Chapter 8

[jboddington]

Hello all, I'm a newbie to the world of arb can anyone offer their advice, been having a long drawn out discussion with my supervisor about if we should be trained in chapter 8 we currently carry out tree work felling/pruning via climbing and mostly work in villages with the truck and chipper parked on the road and we work over public paths my colleagues and myself have been told we should have chapter 8 as compulsory my supervisor disagrees

[Logrod]

Forgive my ignorance, but what is "Chapter 8"?

[robertsonstreecare]

It's a course called signage lighting and guarding. To do with the proper placement of road signs etc. if there was an accident due to a misunderstanding with a sign you put out on a road and you didn't have the ticket you could be liable for the accident as far as I am aware. It's only a day course tho we did it in dec

[Arbworks]

They don't do chapter 8 anymore it's been replaced with 12d.

 

 

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[Paul Jenks]

Regardless of the semantics, to carry out works on or in close proximity to the highway you need to have a certain level of insurance. If you want to work in the road you are required to notify NRSWA, New Roads and Street Works Agency, to book space. You therefore have to have someone who is deemed competent, i.e. has a certificate of competence, and is on the SQWR. NRSWA and highways inspectors can demand to see your certificate and have the right to remove you from the road or footpath if they feel you're not qualified or if your signage is inadequate.

If either of these 2 factors are apparent in the event of an incident it may well give the insurers a good excuse for not paying out.

Stick to your guns and demand that your employer provides adequate training. If you are expected to work adjacent to or on the highway, for your safety and the safety of others you should be trained. Your PPE should also be commensurate with the speed of the road.

[daltontrees]

It's not a course, it's a chapter. In a book called the Traffic Signs Manual. It's the 8th chapter.

 

The chapter is devoted to the design and operation of signage and work sytems where the road is to be obstructed temporarily. It is there to protect workforce and to manage traffic safely and efficiently around the obstruction. It is for the employer to ensure that the health and safety of his employees is taken care of and that road users are not put at risk or unduly inconvenienced.

 

Now in theory an employer can delegate responsibility of the design and operation of the signage to employees. But he cannot do so without ensuring that the employee is competent to do the design and to make sure the signage is set up on site properly. He can't just pass the buck. So if you work full time for someone there should be a clear understanding in place about who is responsible and that the responsible person has the right training.

 

The way this operates within the organisation should be set out in the health & safety policy and should work its way through to the site-specific risk assessment and method statement if the contract requires one.

 

If your employer is requiring you to design or set up signage (i.e. the typical cones and signs around the chipper, truck and worksite) and didn't specify in your employment contract that you had to hav ethe relevant training, it is your employers responsibility either to design and set it up himself or to provide you with the training to do so.

 

It's the law, there is no contracting out of it. Insurers will run for cover if you have not complied with it. If it's not done right people can get hurt or killed.

 

So the question, should you 'have' chaper 8, I suppose means should you have been trained in the correct design and operation of signage for temporary traffic managment around a work site in accordance with the Traffic Signs Manual? Someone in the organisation, the person responsible for the design and operation, must. Thereafter it is a case of what your employment contract says. If it says nothing about it, in my view if you are being asked to set up cones and signage regularly you should have been trained through your employer.

 

I hope that's clear and helpful.

 

Welcome to Arbtalk, by the way. Be smart and be safe and you may have a long and enjoyable career in arb ahead of you. An understanding of Chapter 8 is one of many many things you will pick up along the way. Arb is mored with health & safety, and there are good reasons for that.

Edited February 12, 2014 by daltontrees

[AA Teccie (Paul)]

Hello all, I'm a newbie to the world of arb can anyone offer their advice, been having a long drawn out discussion with my supervisor about if we should be trained in chapter 8 we currently carry out tree work felling/pruning via climbing and mostly work in villages with the truck and chipper parked on the road and we work over public paths my colleagues and myself have been told we should have chapter 8 as compulsory my supervisor disagrees

 

Hi there, in addition to Julian's excellent explanatory post above I would suggest taking a look at the attached docs.

 

Ideally I would recommend you should have at least the 'operatives' training in place if you are placing cones and signs and / or maintaining them through the working day (1 day course and training, rather than licensing, should be adequate.)

 

Cheers..

Paul

New Red book 2014.pdf

NRSWA.docx

[jboddington]

many thanks to everyone who replied,I will pass on all the information

cheers

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

Comprehensive and sound advice from Paul & Jules above, the only (proper / legal) alternative is to contract the task out to a traffic management provider but that may not be cost effective if your tasking is minor roads / footpaths and infrequent. Just another option you can put to your guv'nor.... It's his problem rather than yours but H&S starts with the individual so if you know what you are doing is inappropriate you have to say so.

[Scott Walker]

Ive got mine on the 26th and 27th of Feb one day training second day assessment, for the money it would be silly not to get it to cover yourself just in-case something did happen to go wrong.