The Tree Guild

[Steve Bullman]

do you actually have a view in mind for what percentage will be focussed on quality of work compared to business set up?

[Meep]

The schemes you mention have both failed, IMO, as take up has been so small as to render them impractical, IE if you wanted 3 quote from AAAC in my area you could not get them.

 

After many years of people asking them for change they have failed to move, so many have built up resentment and distrust of them.

 

Hopefully this new body will talk to real cutters at the coal face not accountant types who's chosen business just happens to be tree work.

 

And the assessments will be of Arb practice, not business practice.

 

Just my thoughts

 

Don't get me wrong I totally agree with you, but you have to ask the question of procurement managers in large companies and Local Authorities.

 

They don't really understand our industry and neither the ISA or the AA have not made big enough steps in the right direction.

 

There is only so many times you can re-invent a standard in industry !!!!

 

People may not agree with the AAAC but as long as you do everything right then it is easy to get !!! (even for small companies)

 

The ISA is more for the individuals !!!

 

So where would The Tree Guild fit in ?

[skyhuck]

 

People may not agree with the AAAC but as long as you do everything right then it is easy to get !!! (even for small companies)

 

 

 

 

Yes but very expensive, £8K based on their figures, and pedantic, IMO, what business of their is it how I take down inquiries and arrange appointments??

 

I am interest in joining a trade body, not being part of a franchise!!!

[Meep]

Yes but very expensive, £8K based on their figures, and pedantic, IMO, what business of their is it how I take down inquiries and arrange appointments??

 

I am interest in joining a trade body, not being part of a franchise!!!

 

Firstly it does not cost £8'000 to be AAAC !!!! When i became an AAAC there was only minimum costs involved !!!

 

Please feel free to explain £8K?

 

And if the Tree Guild are to have standards for membership, then they will have to look into how anyone runs there business too !! with standards for how they do work !!!!

 

I like the idea of the Tree Guild But how will it be better than what we already have ?

[skyhuck]

Firstly it does not cost £8'000 to be AAAC !!!! When i became an AAAC there was only minimum costs involved !!!

 

Please feel free to explain £8K?

 

 

I asked them.

 

How long since you did it?

[Simon Rotheram]

Yes but very expensive, £8K based on their figures, and pedantic, IMO, what business of their is it how I take down inquiries and arrange appointments??

 

I am interest in joining a trade body, not being part of a franchise!!!

 

I agree, however gaining AAAC does demonstrate through examination that the company works within the laws to current legislations with insurances, qualified guys etc. etc. which gives procurement an easy task in selecting contractors as they are already vetted to a "standard"

 

I have noticed tenders specified only AAAC contractors can be selected, I also applied to get onto a few council approved lists only to find there are only recommending approved contractors!

[Meep]

I asked them.

 

How long since you did it?

 

I've been AAAC for 3years and have my re-assessment in two years. As long as you tick the boxes on the assessment you'll be fine.

 

Now i'm not saying that I've got loads of work out of this scheme if any!!!!

 

And if i'm honest being CHAS accredited contractor gets you a lot more work.

 

I don't want to be causing problems, but how will the Tree Guild improve on the current situation????

 

In the bigger picture ?

[Topcat]

Having been in this game for a good few years the subject of a trade body that REALLY represents ALL the industry is well worthy of discussion.

 

I thought I had joined one,the AA back in the 80's.Paid my membership,went through the contractors scheme and got approved and ended up on the Nothern branch committee.

 

Then I realised that I only remained approved if I paid to go in their little book every year. All the meetings I went to had very little to do with getting your gear out,climbing and real tree work, more politics,paper pushing and who's who in the Arb club.

 

So I also joined the NAA, great but never seem to take off,this side of the pond and so came Delga and the ISA. A lot more down to earth for the contractor/worker.

 

Then you start to think what you really want from trade body?

 

Someone to come along and check up on your gear and work.....no

or check how new your van and chipper are......no

How to deal with your clients and run your business.......no

 

Why do the people think that they need to approve us in the first place and list us into categories. Surley thats why we go to college and or spend a small fortune on NPTC/Loler. your qualifications and experience should be what counts.

 

Take Arbtalk. 2796 members across all age groups.Juniors getting into the job,through to top climbers and Arb officers. one man bands up to big co's and we all discuss jobs,give advice where we can and even offer to lend a hand on one anothers jobs.The site is proving a real winner,are we becomming a group/society/guild, it feels like it to me.

 

On the other hand the AA (and I use as an example,not to have a dig) over 2000 members, only a hand full of app consultants and I just counted 188 app contractors. After 40 yrs is that the best they can do? if it is then that must prove their thinking is wrong. They may represent the industry but the numbers show they do not represent the majority.

 

For years I have heard people shout about how we need to promote the arb industry. How are people going to take us seriously when our own organisations don't take us seriously. It's obvious from previous comments that there is this them and us or celebrity status, we've heard it all jobs for the boys.

 

Whilst I am the first to agree that bridges need to be put in place within the industry I do not think another guild based on approval schemes is the way forward.

 

If something could be set up that could mirrow the feeling that Arbtalk has generated, helping people out,meetings,legal advice,sharing info etc,that could be a winner.If members felt they were actually getting some benefit I bet no's would soon grow and you could soon have a voice in the industry.

[Yorkshireman]

Guys this isn’t

Just about checking up on companies or individuals or about trying to catch anyone out, or just about promoting a select group, its also about speaking on behalf of you, representing you, promoting quality work so that the dodge & scarper brigade get a reduced foot hold Because the Awareness of the public & procurement departments & colleges & & & will have a focus.

 

You are correct that many have gone before, & still remain some look solely at an individuals academic Quals, some look at the academic & practical application of skill some look just at the company,

 

But who has looked at the industry from the boot laces on up???

, from training - equipment supply, insurance issues, education, awareness, promotion of the industry, recommendations for practical best practice. assist with training packages not just the hands on Stuff but How to write an Ms & Ra Whats the law on bird nesting.

advice as apoint of reference, Not as a bunch of know it alls but as a means of assistance.

 

 

We all know that some La stipulate various criteria in their pqqs

 

Why is there such a wide range of requests, - because they simply don’t have a working knowledge of such a niche industry. There are just so many Hoops to jump through & not all of those hoops are needed.

So we feel that a clearly difind benchmark that is practical, as a point of reference would help.

 

Some pqqs stipulate Mewp operation tickets as mandatory but if you don’t use a mewp then why request it. Also if you have a mewp operator & the guy in the bucket holds climbing certs Should he/she have to have cs47 ?

 

The main issue is that, As we see it Common sense has largely disappeared from what is in the main a practical skills based industry, we can all pontificate & theorise ,but without practical skill nothing we get done as chainsaws don’t do the work independently.. it will remain a set of well intended ideas.........

 

Okay So one example & I choose this for no reason other than it popped into mind

the recent Nos & nptc Coc CS 31 , assisted felling of a tree utilizing a rope

 

Application & need.

Yes in Arbor trees are pulled over, to reduce the need to totally sectionally dismantle it, once sufficient canopy has been removed by either a climber of pole operations from the ground. employing a rope & either a winch Or groundies to assist the stem down safely.

 

however in the context of tree Felling

this would only be required when the felling direction is opposite the weighted portion of the tree !

However we already have split level cuts for that! don’t we.. ?

 

& if we explore it further , what size rope will be required SWL wind loading etc ?

What attachment method will be employed ? How many groundies ? Or are we utilizing a winch ? How close can we get to the felling ?

as Afag state no persons within Two tree lengths. when felling.

& if we do adopt this method do we stop teaching split level , Do we get rid of cs44 felling a standing stem using a tug line ?

 

Our should it be seen as reasonable for those who hold Cs31 then automatically gain cs44?

I can see the nee for cs 44 in some application.

 

However the confusion comes yet again , when a site specification criteria states must have all nptcs this can include cs44 , yet many Arbs wont have it as it is in my opinion supper ceded in gaining Cs31,

 

I know of instances where those who held cs 31 32 couldn’t go onto a site because they didnt have Cs 44

 

I also know of companies who have staff trained to cs 30 31 32 38 39 40 41 stump grinder, chipper, first aid trained but were stopped work because they didn’t have any one qualified in cs 45 ground worker

 

 

When I came to this industry I knew very little & it was very difficult to get a direction,

 

So many voices saying so many things & yet the industry is still fragmented !!!

 

Should this continue ? I don’t think so

 

Will the Treeguild help I hope so as it draws on the experience of real practioneers, who have started this project from the stand point of complete frustration.

 

Kind regards Iain

Edited May 3, 2009 by Yorkshireman

[Peter]

Topcat, on the whole I agree with your sentiments.

 

You only have to read through a few threads on this forum to find informative discussion on a variety of relevant topics. These threads also highlight the fact that the vast majority of arborists are struggling to keep up the constantly changing demands of legislature on their business.

 

The Tree Guild is not about excluding people who dont conform. Anyone is welcome to join, on the basis that they work towards compliance with current legislation. The TG will help all its members through the red tape maze by doing all the legwork on behalf of its members, keeping them informed, and helping them remain compliant.

 

The accreditation system is really a byproduct of this, if your business stands up to scrutiny why not shout about it?

 

The TG is not about jobs for the boys either, all the people involved in its creation so far work full time in the industry, in contracting or LA.

 

It is my sincere hope that we can set something up that is a real benefit to the industry and TG members in particular, the measure of success will be membership uptake and retention, after all, no-one likes to pay for something that does not give a return!