LogPro - FREE Biomass Firewood Kiln

[Duffryn]

Paying out RHI cash to European firewood producers would be one of the quickest ways to end the scheme. Imagine the daily mail getting hold of that one!

 

The USP for these kinds is to reduce imported with bark firewood.

 

Agreed using imported wood does not seem to be in the spirit of the scheme or how we would like the kiln to be fueled but currently no rules to stop it. Mind you as most imported wood has a very low m/c and will cost £60+ I'm not sure why anyone would want to use this as fuel when they could dry their own fuel for much less in the kiln.

[ben_inthewoods]

I thought they're for promoting sustainable energy resources, didn't realize import was such a major issue.

 

As the recent FC Hogan report " uk trade in wood fuel" identifies there is a low risk from pathogens into UK from pellets, but with firewood logs "intrinsically extremely high risk" given the low temperature kilning of logs and self certification of producers.

 

So to be blunt the UPS of low cost kilning in the UK is to compete with imported logs to reduce the increase in imported logs particularly ash which may be harbouring emerald ash borer (then looking to ALHB or CLHB). I realise that your business model is importing ash logs, but there are other commodities to sell that are a lower risk to the UK`s woodlands and trees. Just have a look at the FC bio-security web pages and perhaps come back with a robust bio-security plan.

 

now the RHI is run by politicians. RHI to Latvia probably would not sit too well - that's my take on it.

[FJMatt]

ive read this post with real interest and do believe there is a opportunity to make high quality firewood, but the following paragraphs, would make me proceed with caution,

as who are the "registered suppliers" of timber to fuel the kiln?, as if your timber supplier is not registered then you wont get any RHI payment ,

and if you do manage to find out who is a "registered supplier" i will almost bet that they will add at least £20 @ton , because they know you will be claiming the RHI and you have to have it,

 

What are the fuel sustainability requirements?

 

Fuels must be sourced from a supplier registered on an approved list (this will mandatory from autumn 2014, recommended prior to that). You will have to make an annual declaration that you are doing so, and keep receipts as evidence.

 

I’ve got my own wood supply, can I use that?

 

Yes you can, as long as you do not also supply to other biomass installations. “Woody biomass feedstocks” (this includes perennial energy crops such as miscanthus as well as wood) grown on the same “estate” as an eligible biomass system will be automatically treated as meeting the sustainability criteria. DECC is also looking at a ‘proportionate approach’ for local suppliers of wood fuel.

[Duffryn]

ive read this post with real interest and do believe there is a opportunity to make high quality firewood, but the following paragraphs, would make me proceed with caution,

as who are the "registered suppliers" of timber to fuel the kiln?, as if your timber supplier is not registered then you wont get any RHI payment ,

and if you do manage to find out who is a "registered supplier" i will almost bet that they will add at least £20 @ton , because they know you will be claiming the RHI and you have to have it,

 

What are the fuel sustainability requirements?

 

Fuels must be sourced from a supplier registered on an approved list (this will mandatory from autumn 2014, recommended prior to that). You will have to make an annual declaration that you are doing so, and keep receipts as evidence.

 

I’ve got my own wood supply, can I use that?

 

Yes you can, as long as you do not also supply to other biomass installations. “Woody biomass feedstocks” (this includes perennial energy crops such as miscanthus as well as wood) grown on the same “estate” as an eligible biomass system will be automatically treated as meeting the sustainability criteria. DECC is also looking at a ‘proportionate approach’ for local suppliers of wood fuel.

 

So that I can answer this would you mind giving me a link to the source of the quotes ?

[FJMatt]

i have been on the phone this morning to my own timber supplier and to a relation of mine works in renewable energy market and as far as we can work out it may only apply to the upcoming domestic RHI scheme,

but here is the link and your thoughts will be welcome

 

Domestic renewable heat incentive: your questions answered | YouGen Blog | YouGen, Renewable Energy Made Easy

[Duffryn]

i have been on the phone this morning to my own timber supplier and to a relation of mine works in renewable energy market and as far as we can work out it may only apply to the upcoming domestic RHI scheme,

but here is the link and your thoughts will be welcome

 

Domestic renewable heat incentive: your questions answered | YouGen Blog | YouGen, Renewable Energy Made Easy

 

Yes this is only for domestic RHI. LogPro is on commercial RHI

[Harry310884]

ok thanks. just speaking for our company, we will process 1000 ton of hardwood next year and really the only waste wood is saw dust. so for me looking at your kiln i have to see the 4 tons to fuel 1 complete cycle as a direct cost to the business. so in the worst case scenario 1 ton of fully seasoned or 20% moisture wood, costs a fair bit more than £40 as the website claims. it would equate to roughly 1.35 ton of fresh cut wood which with price of haulage included would easily be costing £80 per ton going into the kiln as fuel. this is not even talking about labour preparing and drying it to 20 %

can other people reading this see the point i am making or am i missing something here?

 

ok thanks. just speaking for our company, we will process 1000 ton of hardwood next year and really the only waste wood is saw dust. so for me looking at your kiln i have to see the 4 tons to fuel 1 complete cycle as a direct cost to the business. so in the worst case scenario 1 ton of fully seasoned or 20% moisture wood, costs a fair bit more than £40 as the website claims. it would equate to roughly 1.35 ton of fresh cut wood which with price of haulage included would easily be costing £80 per ton going into the kiln as fuel. this is not even talking about labour preparing and drying it to 20 %

can other people reading this see the point i am making or am i missing something here?

 

Hello All!

 

I agree with the above. The costing shown is far from the actual costs so a quick breakdown is shown for the newbies to the game. Softwood timber when produced is between £80-90 not including general company overheads ie accountants , insurance etc.

 

£40 x 25 tonnes = £1000 (wood costs inc delivery Forestry commission contract)

3 days labour - 3 men £100 a day = £900

Diesel / oils / fuel = £75

Machine costs allowing depreciation / servicing £200

 

Total £2175 / 25 tonnes = £87 tonne GREEN logs

 

£2175 / 50 cubic metre cages = £43.50 cm3

 

(this can vary dramatically but bare minimum calc is you will always get 50 1m3 cages from a wagon load - max is 65)

 

Hardwood I would allow 150-160 per tonne ( I can't be bothered breaking it down) :-)

 

Prices obviously differ to everyone depending on set up but these prices are what I work on. I am visiting Brecon to see the demo tomorrow and will drop a post afterwards. I do know of a similar outfit currently being set up with no deposit needed and lower KW requirements.

 

There are good and bad points to every new venture and Log pro shouldn't be slated. I've spoken to Danielle from the company and they sound a professional outfit and obviously spent a lot of money researching and setting it up. They are a business and not a bloody charity! Off course they will make money selling a product ..... Funnily enough that's called business. I think for those who can afford it, it's not a bad deal maybe a little step on the RHI requirements but over all pretty fair and they definitely need to look at the cost of running it! If you can't afford 5k outlay in a bond which is fully refundable, to be fair you must a very small outfit. In supplying a kiln this cheap they will be helping the proper firewood merchants like myself and many of you on here, in getting rid of cowboys who sell wet wood for a quick buck. Most people don't know about burning suitable wood in their stoves and personally think it will be another 2 years before everyone is up to speed with it all. I think log pro will be suitable to the mid range 500t a yr semi professional producer and not for the likes of mr tom dick and Harry down the road trying to build their own. Remember premium products premium prices!

 

I have been involved in firewood for nearly 20 yrs and professionally 5 yrs so hope my comments carry some advice. I understand people are struggling for timber and stillages such as IBC units. If this is the case please call me on 07584624394 as I supply both all over the UK.

 

Wish you all the best

Harry Barker - Welsh Woodland Firewood. N Wales

[Duffryn]

Hello All!

 

I agree with the above. The costing shown is far from the actual costs so a quick breakdown is shown for the newbies to the game. Softwood timber when produced is between £80-90 not including general company overheads ie accountants , insurance etc.

 

£40 x 25 tonnes = £1000 (wood costs inc delivery Forestry commission contract)

3 days labour - 3 men £100 a day = £900

Diesel / oils / fuel = £75

Machine costs allowing depreciation / servicing £200

 

Total £2175 / 25 tonnes = £87 tonne GREEN logs

 

 

£2175 / 50 cubic metre cages = £43.50 cm3

 

(this can vary dramatically but bare minimum calc is you will always get 50 1m3 cages from a wagon load - max is 65)

 

Hardwood I would allow 150-160 per tonne ( I can't be bothered breaking it down) :-)

 

Prices obviously differ to everyone depending on set up but these prices are what I work on. I am visiting Brecon to see the demo tomorrow and will drop a post afterwards. I do know of a similar outfit currently being set up with no deposit needed and lower KW requirements.

 

There are good and bad points to every new venture and Log pro shouldn't be slated. I've spoken to Danielle from the company and they sound a professional outfit and obviously spent a lot of money researching and setting it up. They are a business and not a bloody charity! Off course they will make money selling a product ..... Funnily enough that's called business. I think for those who can afford it, it's not a bad deal maybe a little step on the RHI requirements but over all pretty fair and they definitely need to look at the cost of running it! If you can't afford 5k outlay in a bond which is fully refundable, to be fair you must a very small outfit. In supplying a kiln this cheap they will be helping the proper firewood merchants like myself and many of you on here, in getting rid of cowboys who sell wet wood for a quick buck. Most people don't know about burning suitable wood in their stoves and personally think it will be another 2 years before everyone is up to speed with it all. I think log pro will be suitable to the mid range 500t a yr semi professional producer and not for the likes of mr tom dick and Harry down the road trying to build their own. Remember premium products premium prices!

 

I have been involved in firewood for nearly 20 yrs and professionally 5 yrs so hope my comments carry some advice. I understand people are struggling for timber and stillages such as IBC units. If this is the case please call me on 07584624394 as I supply both all over the UK.

 

Wish you all the best

Harry Barker - Welsh Woodland Firewood. N Wales

 

Harry,

 

I don't really disagree with anything you have said here. We are open about how we have calculated the cost of the fuel and this calculation is correct for most of the producers who have enquired about LogPro. For larger outfits then i agree the basis of your calculation is logical.

 

Using firewood processor waste, other types of waste wood and hopefully (very shortly) Rapeseed straw bales will reduce the cost of the fuel dramatically no matter what the size of the customer.

[Duffryn]

A brief demonstration video of the LogPro is now live at :-

 

LogPro - Demo

[Harry310884]

Harry,

 

I don't really disagree with anything you have said here. We are open about how we have calculated the cost of the fuel and this calculation is correct for most of the producers who have enquired about LogPro. For larger outfits then i agree the basis of your calculation is logical.

 

Using firewood processor waste, other types of waste wood and hopefully (very shortly) Rapeseed straw bales will reduce the cost of the fuel dramatically no matter what the size of the customer.

 

No one in today's market can possibly have LOG fuel at the stated £40 per ton unless they have their own woodland and carry out their own harvesting, and to be honest their general output would be lower than the 250 tons needed for your 250000 min KW. Remember , buy in bulk (ie larger companies) will be getting the materials cheaper. I have have contacts in two multi million pound wood product companies and they still pay in the £30 -£40 region for timber. It might be the case in your previous research a few years back in your initial steps but raw materials have increased by 20% in the last 2-3 years. Burning wood waste and straw without doubt seems the way forward and definately needs to be pushed in your sales. Any how I look forward to meeting the team tomorrow and seeing the kiln.I'm leaving at 6.30 so should be there for 9.30 :-)