Questions following CS32/34/50 training

[David Dobedoe]

I’ve just been on a training course for CS32, 34 and 50. ( or whatever they are called now) As I think through the learning I have recognised a few further questions.

 

On the course we used high lift wedges. If the lift from the wedges is not quite “doing it” is a little further encouragement with a winch reasonable? (accepting issues of safety when installing rope / rigging / positioning winch). I presume that in this case tension/pull is added after the cuts?

 

Alternatively is it reasonable, on occasion to attach a rope on a tree and introduce 'pull' in the desired direction before the sink and felling cuts ? If this is done I presume it becomes appropriate to use a “Dog Tooth” cut due to the changes in loading?

 

i would imagine that as trees get bigger these approachs becomes more troublesome due to the increased weights and loads involved. Thoughts please?

 

I am thinking of putting together a lightweight set of kit for smaller jobs based around a winch with approximately 700kg/800kg pull. When it is appropriate to attach a rope to something and then attach that rope to the winch cable and give it a pull (eg pulling dead/fallen branches out of a tree) what is the best rope for the job. Factoring in appropriate value for money/stretch//strength? The rope must be suitable for the work described and it would be great if it was also suitable for other uses in the future. Perhaps related to tree climbing work? (assuming its still in good condition).

 

 

Thanks in advance

David

[Eddy_t]

You are correct, and if you're gonna use a winch, why not just use the endless slings rather than rope?

 

 

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[Spruce Pirate]

Perfectly acceptable to use a winch to pull over trees.

 

There is a new ticket on the NPTC website, I think it's "Winch Assisted Felling", or something similar. You'd probably need to do this as a separate assessment these days. Other's may know more about it.

[Luckyleaf]

You will have to use a winch on cs32 (medium trees) and on cs34 (wind blown) or at least you used to have to when I did mine was 8 years ago however !! The assessments might have changed since then. The NPTC unit literature is freely available on their website, should tell you in there. You also have and assisted fell on one of the electro arb tickets, can't remember which one though can't remember using a rope to assist on any of the units, however in practice quite common !

[Luckyleaf]

With regards to a winch, tirfor do a good light weight winch 1.6tonne which is probably best for what you are describing, use that with endless slings of appropriate strength to the situation. Any rope you use for rigging or related operations is used purely for that and LOLER 'd once a year, never used as part of your climbing systems !! Hope this helps 👍

[daltontrees]

I am guessing you mean the rope is for pulling and not for attaching to trees. If you want a lightweight kit one way to keep it light is to have only 10m of wire rope at the winch end and use rope rope for the felled tree end. The rope should have as little stretch as possible, a stretchy one is no good.

 

I use a 16mm lowering rope, but only to coax a tree over. If it's for insurance against it going the wrong way, I'll double it up.

[David Dobedoe]

Thanks for your thoughts so far. I have found a few good documents online and will be reading over the weekend to supplement my understanding.

 

http://www.forestry.gov.uk/pdf/FCTG001.pdf/$file/FCTG001.pdf

 

http://www.nptc.org.uk/assets/documents/168b7cfda16241e285f1359a51d047e7.pdf

 

This rope selection question continues to make me think.... Perhaps if I further describe typical application it will help?

 

Situation

 

A branch has fallen off and hung up in the canopy. As a first attempt to remove it and make safe I could use a throw line to get a cord over it... use the cord to pull a rope over it and then... attach the rope to the winch cable to give it a pull. Hopefully, if all goes well the pull will bring it down safely. (We did this twice on the course, one situation not even needing the winch and succumbing to the add more boys method!) Assuming the branch is 50ft up the rope will need to be more than 100ft long. Given that this type of situation may require anything from a small pull to quite a big one. (and sometimes the technique won't work) the rope needs to be a safe specification to marry up with the rest of the winching equipment.

 

I understand the issue of not misusing ropes that are needed for another purpose. e.g. not using a climbing rope and then climbing on it with its performance potentially reduced. I am not a tree climber but understand that people dismantling trees lower tree parts down so wonder if that sort of rope could be used safely and still used for lowering? I also understand there is s big difference in the pull from a tiny winch and a big one and that the rope needs not not be a weak link in the system.

 

I would like the rope to be cost effective and ok in a number of applications. My brother uses a small petrol capstan winch in his work. Perhaps the rope that is used for this would be ideal?

 

Thanks in advance

David

[Luckyleaf]

I use a 16mm Samson stable braid rope, mostly for lowering when dismantling, however I have used it lots of times for assisted fells, recently we had a large monterey to dismantle in a confined space, we left the block in over night.....40m asscent in less than a minute with no effort required

 

So you can use it pretty much for anything you need it for and its not going to be the weak link with average strength of 7500kg.... that will probably come down to your slings or krabs. Obviously with the forces you load onto it, especially when snatching are un-recordable so apart from visual inspection of the rope you can never be 100% sure of what damage if any the rope has, unlike you climbing ropes.

 

ps you need a good set of shoulders and throwing arm if you was thinking of throwing it into position