Emergency Stop Failure

[Bald Ed]

There's a simple explanation for this, tip an engine on its side and it runs on its own oil, the oil when hot simply burns like fuel. I bet it blew out some blue grey smoke at the time.

 

I was going to say the same, I have heard of a number of machines, mainly chippers being thrown over that continue to run on the oil and cannot be switched off, I would think that this is the most probable reason if all the stop switches check out ok in normal operation, have you asked whether there was blue smoke and a burning oil smell?

How did he manage to stop the engine or did it stop of its own accord?

what model FSI do you operate?

We are the Importers of FSI Stumpgrinders so please give me a call to dsicuss.

Bald Ed

(Phil 07880 646067)

[gensetsteve]

Or did he panic and not think to hit the emergency stop. deflecting blame away from operator by creating a H&S problem.

[Stumpgo]

I can confirm Breezeblock's analysis.

 

Last summer I tipped mine on its side. At the time it was running at tick over and it switched off fine. And was back on its tracks within an hour.

 

I let it stand for a while then turned it over by hand, no problem. Then tried it on the starter motor with the secondary fuel cut off held off. All fine for a couple of seconds; then it started!! It picked up revs and ran like banshee belching out unburnt oil and a massive grey/black cloud of smoke. Finally, it slowed down and stopped, not sounding very good. Probably it ran for only a few seconds, but felt like forever!

 

Back at the workshop the obvious was confirmed. (It had tipped on the airfilter side (oil bath type)). Sump oil had drained into it.

 

On the bright side, the only damage was one push rod that had jumped its rocker socket and bent. Its been running since with no issues

[Gary Prentice]

To answer everyones questions....

Checked the oil level this morning and its way below the minimum level. It tipped away from the air filter so I haven't bothered looking for oil in that.

 

Speaking to a mechanic, he mentioned he'd had two cars recently which had blown turbos, chucking oil into cylinders and revving their nuts off til they blew. Both owners removed the keys and run for cover. Apparently in cars you simply put them in gear and stall them. We reckon that this machine could be choked if rolled by compressing the air intact pipe from the filter, which is a three inch diameter pipe -

 

The operator reckoned it was the drive belts smoking:confused1: but then admitted that the cutters weren't engaged. Doesn't know what colour the smoke was - but there was a lot of it:confused1:

 

It looks as if the solenoid it mounted horizontally so would have turned on the same axis, hence a weak magnetic field shouldn't have made any difference to its operation. It's not out for a few days so I'll dismantle it and have a look anyway.

 

The machine is a FSI ST27D

[Sean.S]

The other way to stall a runaway diesel is to empty a CO2 fire extinguisher into the air intake.

 

If the engine was still running after your guy rolled it, you won't necessarily find oil in the air filter as it'll have been mostly burned.

If the switches weren't working.....how did he shut it off in the end?

 

Very bad practice to start a rolled engine straight away as it can hydrolock.

Treat a rolled engine in the same way that you'd treat a water flooded engine.

Unless it's only been on it's side for a VERY short time, and/or if you can crank it over by hand (ignition OFF - breaker bar on a pulley bolt) and it turns two complete cycles without locking up / significant resistance.

 

If the drive belts were smoking there'd be obvious damage on them.

 

 

You'll probably never know the exact cause (operator error vs machine) unless you have an extremely recent service checklist stating oil level okay/topped up and you know it doesn't burn THAT much oil normally.

Or - you could replicate the incident to see how it behaves

[Gary Prentice]

Just to add to my last post, after an interesting telephone conversation with Phil from Spectrum Plant, FSI's only importers and dealers, we've reached the conclusion that there's no fault with the machine, only the operator Dohh!!1

 

Another brownie point for this site, Phil's very knowledgeable and helpful, he's offered to help our company source some parts for a project were planning and I'd recommend anyone to contact him for advice on both these stumpgrinders or timberwolf chippers.

Thanks Phil:thumbup::thumbup:

[Gary Prentice]

The other way to stall a runaway diesel is to empty a CO2 fire extinguisher into the air intake.

 

If the engine was still running after your guy rolled it, you won't necessarily find oil in the air filter as it'll have been mostly burned.

If the switches weren't working.....how did he shut it off in the end?

 

Very bad practice to start a rolled engine straight away as it can hydrolock.

Treat a rolled engine in the same way that you'd treat a water flooded engine.

Unless it's only been on it's side for a VERY short time, and/or if you can crank it over by hand (ignition OFF - breaker bar on a pulley bolt) and it turns two complete cycles without locking up / significant resistance.

 

If the drive belts were smoking there'd be obvious damage on them.

 

 

You'll probably never know the exact cause (operator error vs machine) unless you have an extremely recent service checklist stating oil level okay/topped up and you know it doesn't burn THAT much oil normally.

Or - you could replicate the incident to see how it behaves

 

The ES had been hit and the ignition was off, so when it was righted it stopped. The belts weren't actually engaged.

 

We've service/maintenance sheets but.... If I don't personally check stuff who knows if boxes aren't just ticked off:001_rolleyes:

 

Good advice on the Co2 though, never thought of that. TBH with some of our lads I sometimes feel that I need to ask if they've remembered to wipe and washed their hands when they leave the bathroom:lol:

[Breezeblock]

there are valves made to stop engines overspeeding that are made by a company called chalwyn equipment in poole dorset we used to fit them onto our demolition excavators for when they were working in oil refineries if they pick up flammable gas it causes the revs to rise and shuts the engine off. some of the old detroit 2 strokes had them fitted as standard as the blower seals would fail with catastrophic results:laugh1: